Power's Tier List for Pathfinder

[zook1shoe]

I never actually understood the medium.

My experience with the occultist was rough, a very strange and poorly built class, IMO. The spellcasting ability is ridiculously limited.

Yeah, the psychic's spell list is a huge disappointment.

Played a mesmerist and loved it, felt very versatile with casting, rebuffs, and being a face.

Id Rager Bloodrager should be high 3 or low 4, at least. Swaps bloodline for all the abilities of a phantom when bloodraging, except incorp. This includes running through walls, all the emotion abilities, DR, even bonuses from the table (ability increases, etc.) Oh, and rageable psychic spellcasting.

[Power]

If you play a Rebirth discipline Psychic and prestige into Veiled Illusionist and Pathfinder Savant (esp. with the new Prestigious Caster feat) and/or play a Samsaran Psychic with Mystic Past Life he's a rather powerful spellcaster, but his own spell list is rather bad yes. I think you can also make it work with the Shadow discipline if you put Preferred Spell feats on the shadow domain spells so you can use them more than once per day (and freely put Tenebrous Spell metamagic on them) and run it as a shadowcaster, but Rebirth discipline is by far the best for rounding out the Psychic's spells.

As for the Id Bloodrager, psychic spellcasting is more of a drawback than boon to bloodrager casting. Now the bloodrager has to deal with +10 to concentration DCs unless he centers himself and if he is ever under any emotion descriptor ability (like someone just rolling the intimidate skill on the bloodrager), he can't cast at all. Unless you're taking the Pride emotional focus and cheesing your attack rolls so they never miss, psychic spellcasting is much more of a weakness than benefit for bloodragers. The two big perks I see are the ability to run through walls and collecting DR. But the DR looks more impressive than it is, since DR/slashing and DR/magic are very easily overcome, and the standard Invulnerable Rager Barbarian typically has it much better. Ultimately the only truly special perk I see is running through walls, which is not enough to elevate it to a T3 in my book, and in general a party can just get a pickaxe if you want to dig through walls.

The only 4th level caster (Medium does not count, since it is a 6th level caster with the spellcasting spirits) that might be a T3 is a Sacred Servant Paladin with Oath of Vengeance (which converts the Sacred Servant's extra lay on hands into more smite evil to cover for the reduced progression). But that's mostly a T3 whenever the planar ally is used, which in turn also depends on how long you can keep an ally hanging around before the GM considers it an unreasonable request (if you're on a save-the-world quest though even regular planar allies would stick around just fine). At other times, it depends on a decent domain (adding UMD and Unsanctioned Knowledge helps a lot too), in which case this mainly feels like one of those cases where a more skilled player is able to get a class to shift up a tier rather than lending itself to a higher tier by default.

[ImperatorK]

If I missed an answer then sorry, but I'm curious if Path of War classes will be added, or not since they're 3pp?

[TheJerkStore]

I mostly agree with tier 3 and up, I'm not sure I'd have the same in the lower tiers.  Unchained Monk deserves a tier 5 as it does one thing very well (deal melee damage) and gets some utility (flight, etherealness, etc), and I feel that regular monk deserves at least a blue 6/red 5.  I'd also bump Vigilante up to 4, it's a surprisingly versatile class.  But that's just my opinion.

[zook1shoe]

I think only the casting vigilantes could be 4s.

Maybe bump the casting investigators to a blue 3? Casting is much more versatile than alchemy

[TheJerkStore]

I think only the casting vigilantes could be 4s.

Maybe bump the casting investigators to a blue 3? Casting is much more versatile than alchemy

There's casting investigators?  I'm not aware of such, mind pointing me in the right direction?  There's a lot of Pathfinder stuff and it's hard to search sometimes. 

[zook1shoe]

Psychic Detective

Questioner

There is no link for most of the investigator archetypes, which is annoying.

[Power]

I mostly agree with tier 3 and up, I'm not sure I'd have the same in the lower tiers.  Unchained Monk deserves a tier 5 as it does one thing very well (deal melee damage) and gets some utility (flight, etherealness, etc), and I feel that regular monk deserves at least a blue 6/red 5.  I'd also bump Vigilante up to 4, it's a surprisingly versatile class.  But that's just my opinion.

Moved Unchained Monk to Tier 5. Disagree with Vigilante as T4. Vig appears to be either T5 or a 6th level spellcaster, depending on the archetype. I'd sooner play a Fighter with his regular feats dumped into social feats than a vig I think.

I think only the casting vigilantes could be 4s.

I think they're more T3s.

Maybe bump the casting investigators to a blue 3? Casting is much more versatile than alchemy

I'm not really inclined to make a separate note of archetypes unless there's a full tier shift.

[zook1shoe]

makes sense

[God Wizard]

Well, it's no debate that the new Shifter class is terrible.   Would red T5 or T6 be a reasonable spot for it?

[zook1shoe]

Red 5 seems about right. Very underwhelming

[Blue Rose]

I'm more interested in the placement of the Hunter.  I haven't looked at it closely, but it seems more viable than the Shifter.

So sad they botched Shifter like they did.

If I missed an answer then sorry, but I'm curious if Path of War classes will be added, or not since they're 3pp?

That sounds beyond the scope of this list, but it's a perfectly legitimate topic for its own thread!  It's something I'm interested in opinions on, myself, for Paths of War, psionic, and sphere classes.

[snakeman830]

I'm more interested in the placement of the Hunter.  I haven't looked at it closely, but it seems more viable than the Shifter.

So sad they botched Shifter like they did.

If I missed an answer then sorry, but I'm curious if Path of War classes will be added, or not since they're 3pp?

That sounds beyond the scope of this list, but it's a perfectly legitimate topic for its own thread!  It's something I'm interested in opinions on, myself, for Paths of War, psionic, and sphere classes.

From what I'm experiencing of the Aegis class (psionics) I would put it as a solid Tier 4, possibly low Tier 3, depending on how many power stones you can get access to.

[zook1shoe]

If they are added, maybe use a different color for them, like dark green or something

[Blue Rose]

Or perhaps italicized?

[Masakan]

Honestly the more I look at the magus and the war-priest the more I feel their position is a little.....undeserved. Do i think they should be higher then tier 3? Fuck no. That was accurate, but i do think they deserve to be more on the Blue end then the red.

[God Wizard]

The Warpriest is red 3, because it uses the Cleric's spells with as a 2/3 caster... without actually adjusting the spell levels.

[Masakan]

The Warpriest is red 3, because it uses the Cleric's spells with as a 2/3 caster... without actually adjusting the spell levels.

But at the same time the cleric's spell list is such a mishmash, that there are spells on said list that are borderline useless on a cleric, that are amazing on a warpriest. Prime example would be blood crow strike

[zook1shoe]

If you're interested in giving input, paizo is already considering several tweaks on making the shifter better here

[God Wizard]

If you're interested in giving input, paizo is already considering several tweaks on making the shifter better here

The quality of life updates may get it out of the red zone, but I doubt the it'll leave T5.  Probably won't even reach blue.  I honestly can't understand what the fuck Paizo was thinking with this class.