Author Topic: What's the best CR 34 monster one can make for an undead minion? [3.5 & PF]  (Read 8920 times)

Offline Ed-Zero

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So I will going into an level 30 epic gestalt game as a cleric 30//summoner 30 just to see what I can do with it and thanks to the GM, I will have a CR 34 create as my undead companion with the Undead Lord.

So I've been looking at Cthulhu to run around as my minion with the Worm that Walks Template but I don't really know what else to put on it or even if there's some other monster that's lower CR but way better.

If anyone can help or offer suggestions, I would appreciate it!

Offline phaedrusxy

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Cthulhu... as your... minion:clap :lmao

He's basically like an insane elder deity. He even grants spells to his worshipers. Is your DM really going to let you do this?
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Offline Ed-Zero

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Cthulhu... as your... minion:clap :lmao

He's basically like an insane elder deity. He even grants spells to his worshipers. Is your DM really going to let you do this?
Well, he did say I could take any creature that's up to a 34 CR. The only downside I can see of him turning him down is his Immortal ability.. I figured I could just say I used something like timestop when I kill him so I can get his skeleton/body to make him undead.

That's why i'm looking to see if there's another creature with some awesome ability i'm overlooking or something weak that's awesome after a bunch of templates...

Good to see you again Phaedrus :)

Offline phaedrusxy

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I think your DM will say "That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die." when you ask him about killing and reanimating Cthulu.  :lol (At least I would. :P )

Does it have to be from PF exclusively? Or will D&D 3.5 monsters work? I'm not so familiar with PF...
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Offline Ed-Zero

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I think your DM will say "That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die." when you ask him about killing and reanimating Cthulu.  :lol (At least I would. :P )

Does it have to be from PF exclusively? Or will D&D 3.5 monsters work? I'm not so familiar with PF...
It can definitely be 3.5, just had to make the characters in pf. That's why i'm almost sure I missed a better combination

Offline Maat Mons

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I'd be tempted by an adult force dragon (Epic Level Handbook, p182) dracolich (Draconomicon, p146).  You'll want to adjust that to Pathfinder undead standards, no hit die change and charisma replaces constitution for all purposes, including hit points. 

Offline phaedrusxy

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I'd be tempted by an adult force dragon (Epic Level Handbook, p182) dracolich (Draconomicon, p146).  You'll want to adjust that to Pathfinder undead standards, no hit die change and charisma replaces constitution for all purposes, including hit points.
Maat Mons read my mind.   :cool I was going to suggest one of the epic dragons turned into a dracolich as well. I didn't remember if the force or prismatics were better, though.
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Offline Ed-Zero

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Prismatic force dragon
Age         Size    Hit Dice (hp)           Str    Dex    Con    Int    Wis    Cha BAB/Grple Atk    Fort  Ref  Will  Breath Wpn    Frightful Pres
Juvenile    G    38d12+418 (665)     41    10    33    32    33    32    +38/+65    +49    +32    +21    +32    40                   40

Force Dragon
Age         Size    Hit Dice (hp)           Str    Dex    Con    Int    Wis    Cha BAB/Grple Atk    Fort  Ref  Will  Breath Wpn    Frightful Pres
Adult    G    45d12+585 (877)    51    10    37    38    39    38    +45/+77    +61    +37    +24    +38    30d12 (45)    46


Hmmm, trying to see which one is better.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 12:23:46 AM by Ed-Zero »

Offline phaedrusxy

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Elder Titans are all Epic spellcasters. That might make a decent choice, also. You could even slap that Worm that Walks template on one.  :lmao
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Ed-Zero

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Elder Titans are all Epic spellcasters. That might make a decent choice, also. You could even slap that Worm that Walks template on one.  :lmao
Can they be sized down to around 30 HD? I'm not seeing a way to do so without template cheese..

Offline Maat Mons

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Between a juvenile prismatic dragon and an adult force dragon, I'd take the latter.  It casts as an 18th-level sorcerer, while the former only casts as a 13th-level sorcerer. 

Offline Ed-Zero

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Between a juvenile prismatic dragon and an adult force dragon, I'd take the latter.  It casts as an 18th-level sorcerer, while the former only casts as a 13th-level sorcerer.
Looks like I messed up on the CRs. The ones I can use are:

Force Dragon CR 31
Age         Size    Hit Dice (hp)           AC   Atk    Fort     Ref    Will      Breath Wpn    Fear DC    SR
Adult       G        45d12+585 (877)   57   +61   +37    +24   +38      30d12 (45)       46           39


Prismatic Dragon CR 34
Age             Size    Hit Dice (hp)           AC    Atk    Fort       Ref    Will      Breath Wpn    Fear DC     SR
Young adult G      43d12+559 (838)    61    +56    +36     +23    +36       44                  44             48

Offline Maat Mons

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But after the +3 CR from dracolich, the young adult prismatic dragon becomes CR 37,  which is higher than you said you could go. 

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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+1  My kitty avatar finds a Cthulhu-Worm thing only a smidge disturbing.

I was trying to image what it would look like, perhaps with a mask
like a run-of-the-mill Worm That Walks.  Would it surprise anyone
 ;) :D  ... that this is what I came up with (?!) :

(click to show/hide)
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline phaedrusxy

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 :lmao :lol :clap
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Ed-Zero

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+1  My kitty avatar finds a Cthulhu-Worm thing only a smidge disturbing.

I was trying to image what it would look like, perhaps with a mask
like a run-of-the-mill Worm That Walks.  Would it surprise anyone
 ;) :D  ... that this is what I came up with (?!) :

(click to show/hide)
Aha, thanks for thinking it's only a smidge disturbing haha.

I believe currently I am leaning towards the 31 CR Force Dragon. Along with the Dracolich (which seems a must to take), there's this beauty, the Fleshwarped:

Fleshwarped - CR +1

Now the interesting thing about the Fleshwarped Template is that it says "Special Abilities: A fleshwarped creature gains a single special attack, defense, or quality chosen by its creator—typically a physical ability, such as +2 to natural armor, a new natural attack like a bite or a tentacle attack, a new movement mode, a new sense, or an ability such as a breath weapon, ferocity, or grab. The new ability should be comparable to those of other monsters of the base creature’s CR."

So I get to add any ability from any creature CR 34 or below onto it for a +1 CR..

I'm going to list a few abilities I'd like and see what you guys think:

Magic Immunity (Constructs)
Weapon Immunity (Fine Swarm) ~ Doubt this one would fly though since it's an innate ability of Fine/Tiny Swarms
20th Level Cleric Spells (Solar)
Freedom of Movement (Multiple Creatures)
Regeneration 10 (Hekatonkheires)
Lifedrinker (Balor Lord) - Get the effects of a Heal Spell after every person you kill (max 1/round)
Razor Claws (Ex) A drakainia's claws are razor sharp with a critical threat range of 17–20 and a critical multiplier of ×4.
Terrasque Regeneration
Terrasque Carapace (Out of the 2 from the Terrasque, I'm thinking this might be more reasonable to have)

Well, those are just from a quick look through the pathfinder beastiary of creatures above CR 20.

Any ideas of what creatures have an awesome ability that would be useful to snatch would be most helpful too!

Offline phaedrusxy

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How about the black pudding's split ability?  :smirk
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Ed-Zero

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Split would be amazing, but I'm trying to keep the amount of creatures I have to watch over to a minimum (Just this undead minion and my eidolon that I still have to work out).

Offline Ed-Zero

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Ahhh, I almost forgot about one of the best parts of Corpse Companion . I bolded the best part:

Corpse Companion (Su)

With a ritual requiring 8 hours, an undead lord can animate a single skeleton or zombie whose Hit Dice do not exceed her cleric level. This corpse companion automatically follows her commands and does not need to be controlled by her. She cannot have more than one corpse companion at a time. It does not count against the number of Hit Dice of undead controlled by other methods. She can use this ability to create a variant skeleton such as a bloody or burning skeleton, but its Hit Dice cannot exceed half her cleric level. She can dismiss her companion as a standard action, which destroys it.

This means that since dracolich makes my force dragon into a skeleton, I get to apply skeletal templates to it as long as they don't add HD! Here's 4 that I'll be adding to it from PF (All found in the Skeleton Template):

Skeleton (Acid): The bones of an acid skeleton constantly ooze caustic acid. An acid skeleton’s melee attacks deal an additional 1d6 points of acid damage, and anyone striking an acid skeleton with an unarmed strike or natural attack takes 1d6 points of acid damage. Acid skeletons lose their immunity to cold but gain immunity to acid. An acid skeleton’s Charisma is 12. Other energy types, such as electric skeletons or frost skeletons, can be applied in a similar fashion. (CR +1)

Bloody Skeleton
A bloody skeleton is coated in a slick layer of blood and gore infused with negative energy. This gore allows the skeleton to reform and heal itself.
Creating a Bloody Skeleton
Challenge Rating: As a normal skeleton + 1.
Fast Healing: A bloody skeleton has fast healing equal to 1 per 2 Hit Dice it possesses (minimum 1).
Saves: A bloody skeleton gains channel resistance +4.
Abilities: A bloody skeleton's Charisma is 14.
Special Qualities: A bloody skeleton gains the deathless special quality.
Deathless (Su)
A bloody skeleton is destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points, but it returns to unlife 1 hour later at 1 hit point, allowing its fast healing thereafter to resume healing it. A bloody skeleton can be permanently destroyed if it is destroyed by positive energy, if it is reduced to 0 hit points in the area of a bless or hallow spell, or if its remains are sprinkled with a vial of holy water.

Burning Skeleton
A burning skeleton is surrounded by an aura of flames that deals fire damage to those it strikes
Challenge Rating: As a normal skeleton + 1.
Aura: Burning skeletons possess a fiery aura.
Fiery Aura (Ex)
Creatures adjacent to a burning skeleton take 1d6 points of fire damage at the start of their turn. Anyone striking a burning skeleton with an unarmed strike or natural attack takes 1d6 points of fire damage.
Defensive Abilities: Burning skeletons lose their immunity to cold but gain immunity to fire. A burning skeleton gains vulnerability to cold damage.
Melee Attacks: A burning skeleton's melee attacks (including both those made with a natural weapon and those made with a manufactured weapon) deal an additional 1d6 points of fire damage.
Abilities: A burning skeleton's Charisma is 12.
Special Qualities: A burning skeleton gains fiery death.
Fiery Death (Su)
A burning skeleton explodes into a burst of flame when it dies. Anyone adjacent to the skeleton when it is destroyed takes 1d6 points of fire damage per 2 Hit Dice the skeleton possessed (minimum 1d6). A Reflex save (DC = 10 + 1/2 the skeleton's Hit Dice + the skeleton's Cha bonus) halves this damage.

Mudra Skeleton: Sometimes known as “whirlwind skeletons,” mudra skeletons are created with four or more arms, each capable of wielding a weapon. A mudra skeleton’s Dexterity increases by +4 (instead of +2), and it gains Multiweapon Fighting and Weapon Finesse as bonus feats. (CR +1)

The only one I'm not sure about is the Acid template as it makes him lose his immunity to cold for acid. Also, all of these apparently reset the skeleton's charisma, I think I can get that overlooked without too many problems. One of the best things with the Bloody template is that it gives my dragon fasthealing 17 which is pretty awesome.

As a side note, I will be taking Corpsecrafter and Nimble Bones feats and say that I've raised this dragon under a desecrate spell for more HP and an additional +2 profane bonus on all attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws.

All in all, I think my "minion" is shaping up to be the bees knees.

Edit: After looking at the Acid Skeleton closer, I could apply the template another 4 times to cover the base elements (fire, cold, electricity, sonic) in addition to giving him +4d6 to all his attacks. I could probably do ones such as divine and profane, but I figure covering the bases will "play" nicer.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 12:54:16 PM by Ed-Zero »

Offline Chemus

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What's you concern about multiple free minions via split?
Apathy is ...ah screw it.
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