Author Topic: Monk Build Thread (Read 19025 times)

OblivionSmurf83 · « **on:** November 17, 2011, 01:16:44 PM »

Almost everyone on these boards hates Monks, and thinks they can't meaningfully contribute to most adventuring parties. I'm completely inexperienced with Melee builds, and have never attempted to play a Monk. However, I thought it might be fun to start a thread containing a series of powerful Monk builds, that can hold their own in most engagements. I'm going to start us off with:

BUILD ONE

Cloistered Cleric 1/Monk 4/Shou Disciple 5/Sacred Fist 10

This character has a BAB of 18, meaning the class will hit more often than your standard monk.

He has the unarmed strike progression of a level 20 Monk. The class actually gains this damage sooner than a level 20 Monk, maxing out their damage at level 17.

He can cast like a 9th level Cleric, and has access to Divine Metamagic. This gives him access to 5th level buffs, which somewhat alleviates the Monk's MAD nature.

Cloistered Cleric is his first class, to boost his skills and prep him for a bit of Knowledge Devotion action. The educated feat can assist with this.

The big flaw with this build is that it wastes the Shou Disciple's best ability: the ability to flurry with any martial weapon. Our Sacred Fist Code of Conduct prohibits this. One way to get around this is to replace the Sacred Fist levels with one of the Monk prestige classes from Dragon Magazine 314. These all require 3rd level spells; however, early entry tricks such as Sanctum Spell and Versatile Spellcaster can alleviate this.

TeslaWolff · « **Reply #1 on:** November 17, 2011, 01:33:28 PM »

Unarmed Swordsage. 'nuff said.

Basket Burner · « **Reply #2 on:** November 17, 2011, 01:42:19 PM »

Pack Monk:

Max Str, spend all wealth on extra dimensional storage, some minor wondrous items, and possibly a bottle of air. Need to get somewhere in a hurry? Just take the Pack Monk express, where you will ride in a comfortable interdimensional paradise while our runners transport you to whereever you need to be. Our team of Unseen Servants will attend to your every need to sit back and relax while we do the work for you!

Pack Monk enterprises is not responsible for any death, dismemberment, theft, being stranded on the Astral Plane, being abandoned in a random area, or starvation that may occur should the Pack Monk express encounter other dimensions, wandering monsters, or smart asses that remind him of his faults and drive him to suicide.

carnivore · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2011, 03:10:42 PM »

I do not hate Monks and I do believe they can contribute to most parties they are in.... there are many Relative things in this Game, and few Absolutes.

However I also believe they require a lot of Optimization to reach thier potiential ....

SolEiji · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2011, 03:15:36 PM »

I actually love monks. Or, at least, the concept of the monk. That's what always bugged me, Monk the class is such a poor example of a monk, so all my monk builds end up being barely monk at all. The monk builds which actually are significantly from the Monk class ironically don't end up acting as monks should, as I usually augment them towards defensive survival or weak one-trick ponies (stunning fist tricks mostly).

Maybe I'll find where I put those builds and post some.

Sobolev · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2011, 03:29:39 PM »

There is a monk variant that can take any Fighter feat instead of monk feats, which has the amusing side effect of not requiring prereqs. Hilarity ensues. This is from like the second 3.5 issue of Dragon, though I don't know the number.

In another issue, Monks can trade a few things for Wild Shape, I've heard that's strong.

Finally, there's a Monk ACF that lets you trade something (probably bad) for the ability to Blink and something else. It's called Invisible Fist. It's pretty good.

Dreamweaver · « **Reply #6 on:** November 17, 2011, 03:31:37 PM »

Hrm, how about something simple.

(click to show/hide)

Now, granted, you can't fly, so getting to various difficult to reach enemies might be slightly problematic, but maybe a caster in your party could give you flight.

Also, perhaps, you could modify it slightly to gain the Barbarian ACF from Complete Champion for the charge/pounce effect, but you'd lose out on the 4th level of Initiate, or the bonus 4th level feat from Fighter.

Dreamweaver · « **Reply #7 on:** November 17, 2011, 03:33:27 PM »

Well, going with the Sobolev mention of the "monk takes fighter feats instead of the normal monk feats from Dragon #XXX", that would solve the problem of not being able to take the Barbarian level in my suggested build above.

carnivore · « **Reply #8 on:** November 17, 2011, 03:35:14 PM »

how about trying this .... lets see if we can make builds that focus on what the Monk was actually designed to do:

from Players Handbook page 40
Role: The monk functions best as an opportunistic combatant, using her speed to get into and out of combat quickly rather than engaging in prolonged melees. She also makes an excellent scout, particularly if she focuses her skill selection on stealth.

SolEiji · « **Reply #9 on:** November 17, 2011, 03:43:02 PM »

Barbarian 1/Monk X?

Yeah I know, alignment issues. It's hard to get around it, but in that way a monk can pounce and flurry.

You know what I'd like to see? If flurry applied to any attacks, adding X many attacks to either a single or full attack action. It would be like a mini-pounce, but since you get even more attacks on a full round it would still encourage you to occasionally full attack.

awaken_D_M_golem · « **Reply #10 on:** November 17, 2011, 05:26:26 PM »

Quote from: Sobolev on November 17, 2011, 03:29:39 PM

There is a monk variant that can take any Fighter feat instead of monk feats, which has the amusing side effect of not requiring prereqs. Hilarity ensues. This is from like the second 3.5 issue of Dragon, though I don't know the number.

In another issue, Monks can trade a few things for Wild Shape, I've heard that's strong.

Finally, there's a Monk ACF that lets you trade something (probably bad) for the ability to Blink and something else. It's called Invisible Fist. It's pretty good.

Martial Monk ... rai of course not, even though that's even weaker.
Most Fighter feats are not Monk-ey or Monk-ish.
Raw? Hey look, interesting trick here.

But true enough, with all the monk vs. threads that popped up
back at (misty-eyed) BG ... more than a few things got uncovered.

**

Martial Monk 6 / Titan Bloodline 3 / UrPriest 2 / Ardent 2 / Psychic Theurge 7
Tash feat and the Flurry With Light Weapons feat(s) applied to the Titan 12 ability.
This was my oldie. I mean it uses cheese and has a few weak levels.

**

Erudite StP 7 / Monk 1 with Tash / Erudite on up
... could take Monk 1 at 2nd level, changing the early build direction.
... could take Monk 2 after Erud 17 is reached.
Depends more on what epic will look like.
You can flavor it early in a Monk direction.
Take the Air Elemental Envoy and have it be the fake-lesser monk, before retraining to psicrystal.
Throw in a recharge set-up and this "monk" and it's pet "monk" rock, rocks.

StreamOfTheSky · « **Reply #11 on:** November 17, 2011, 05:39:41 PM »

Quote from: SolEiji on November 17, 2011, 03:43:02 PM

You know what I'd like to see? If flurry applied to any attacks, adding X many attacks to either a single or full attack action. It would be like a mini-pounce, but since you get even more attacks on a full round it would still encourage you to occasionally full attack.

My Monk houserules (PF rules, but my original 3E monk houserules included it, too) include that ability, though I have it at level 7, because I want there to be reasons to advance as monk and I'm wary of making things too appealing for dipping.

(click to show/hide)

SorO_Lost · « **Reply #12 on:** November 17, 2011, 07:48:43 PM »

One of the Monk vs treads got me to make this, mindful the mouth darts don't work like I mentioned that did.

(click to show/hide)

X-Codes · « **Reply #13 on:** November 17, 2011, 08:08:29 PM »

Twice Betrayer, Monk Version:

Halfling Monk 7/Ranger 1/Harper Paragon 2/Trapsmith 1/Swiftblade 9

Customized Classes:
Halfling Monk (RotW) @ 1
Dark Moon Disciple (CoV WE) @ 3 and 7
Mystic Ranger
Trap Expert Ranger

Feats:
Swift Hunter, Improved Skirmish
Sword of the Arcane Order if your DM lets you boost Mystic Ranger casting with Swiftblade
Extra Favored Enemy x2

Notable Features:
Almost-always-on Total Concealment
Favored Enemies: Arcanists +6, Undead +2, Constructs +2, Evil +1 (technically no hit bonus for this one, so I don't like it as much)
Skirmish +5d6 damage/+5 AC/+2 Reflex as long as you move 20' or more each round, and it applies to all FE's above.

Sadly, because of retarded stacking rules, the movement speed of the build is only 40' per round, so it's not that awesome of a spring-stunner. It's not bad, but if you replace the Monk levels with the Dark template and Scout levels, you get a better build, overall.

gorfnab · « **Reply #14 on:** November 17, 2011, 11:12:04 PM »

Salad Bar Monk
Warforged Monk 2/ Druid 3/ Landforged Walker 5/ Sacred Fist 10

Sacrilegious Fist
Duskblade 3/ Monk 2/ Ur-Priest 2/ Sacred Fist 10/ Enlightened Fist 3

Solo · « **Reply #15 on:** November 17, 2011, 11:16:47 PM »

Here is the monk I trot out for Giacomo when he fails to produce a build to support his arguments of what a monk can do, though why that should even happen I have no idea, for the man has an extensive guide to monks that includes a build at every level from 1 to 20.

SolEiji · « **Reply #16 on:** November 18, 2011, 12:08:28 AM »

Quote from: StreamOfTheSky on November 17, 2011, 05:39:41 PM

Quote from: SolEiji on November 17, 2011, 03:43:02 PM
You know what I'd like to see? If flurry applied to any attacks, adding X many attacks to either a single or full attack action. It would be like a mini-pounce, but since you get even more attacks on a full round it would still encourage you to occasionally full attack.

My Monk houserules (PF rules, but my original 3E monk houserules included it, too) include that ability, though I have it at level 7, because I want there to be reasons to advance as monk and I'm wary of making things too appealing for dipping.

(click to show/hide)
Rushing Torrent: At level 7, a monk has perfected her flurrying technique and can now add her additional flurry of blows attacks to any attack action, instead of being limited to a full attack action. This includes, but is not limited to, readied actions, charges, martial strike maneuvers, and Spring Attacks. The monk simply chooses to apply the flurry attacks at the start of the action (taking the appropriate attack penalty to attack rolls). If used with Vital Strike or a similar feat, base weapon damage is only multiplied on the first attack.

Nice anti-dip measure. I like.

May as well add a build which is more or less monk, even though its only 6 levels of monk.

LE Monk 6/Warblade or Crusader 2/Disciple of Dispater 10/Anything Else 2

Strength focused, secondary Con, the rest is less important. The idea is to obtain Scorpion Kama by level 8 (or even better, put the effect of scorpion kama on any high-crit weapon) made of steel, and use the typical boosters to get unarmed damage as per a 20th level monk. With the better crit range (especially if you got it on a high crit weapon) the modest amount of dice you get are multiplied nicely and much more often. He's got decent skills and trapfinding, summons for utility, stoneskin/iron body for defense, maneuvers for skirmishing, and a good amount of saves (monk and DoD have all good saves to their name).
Cons: No good high crit monk weapons out there. I hear there are some (kinda weak) feats to give monks more special monk weapons which might help. I'm too used to playing with homebrew feats which purposefully allow expanding the special monk weapons to other things.

Never really played or tested this build but always wanted to, eventually. Its a weapon focused monk, and has the BAB (and weapon) to make use of power attack.

SorO_Lost · « **Reply #17 on:** November 18, 2011, 12:27:04 AM »

You can also 180 from good advice. Like how I keep telling people Monk isn't MAD (who cares about AC?) and instead balance Wisdom and Dexterity.

Shiba Protector as a single level dip adds your wisdom bonus to Attack & Damage, Fierce^A&E lets you trade your Dex Bonus to AC for more damage (like power attack). Strictly speaking, it is far cheaper to own multiple lower bonus items than even a single higher level one. Same for how Point Buy works; an 18 is worth 16 build points yet you can instead take two 14s and a 12 off the same number of points which is +5 rather than +4 if put together.

PB 25 is: 14/14/14/9/14/8.
PB 32 can give: 14/14/14/14/14/10, lots of +2 bonuses and also no UMD penalty.
Go Passive Way for free Combat Expertise and Improved Trip, the latter is required for Shiba. With Weak Will as a flaw to pick up Iron Will you net entry without costing a real feat slot and what's more is the synergy of it all. You need 6 levels of Monk for Dark Disciple, Passive Way's 6th level trait is bonuses to Trip against Flat-Footed foes and the free Improved Trip not only helps this, but sets you up for Knock-Down which yet also gains a huge benefit from Battle Jump as it not only gives double damage for charging, but also a size increase for the Trip. Toss in Valorous and Tiger's Leap when you can though that is a +4 weapon and a bit beyond you're budget.

From there, a dip into Factotum would round out those skills and let you put that base 14 Intelligence towards damage. By your 3rd level in you've got Int to Str checks, aka your Trip modifier. Pick up Sweeping^FR:MoF for another +4 bonus to Tripping too. And speaking of weapons, using a Scorpion Kama lets you deal all your unarmed damage though it, which if you recall and be dropped on a failed Trip, not to mention if you can merge effects you can pick up the Kama of True Aim^A&E to ignore concealment foes may have against you. Which could be really useful should you desire to capitalize on your super stealth by using Sneak Attack. Lastly and the point in to which I run out of ideas, Lion Totem Barbarian with a Mantle of Rage and an off hand Berserker kama or something. And whatever you want for level 12, but make sure you pick up Snap Kick.

Recap so far
Passive Way Monk 6 / Shiba Protector 1 / Factotum 3 / Lion Totam Barbarian / Any
Feats: Weak Will, Iron Will, Battle Jump, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Knock Down, Snap Kick.
Near unbeatable concealment for primary defense and powering Sneak Attack and Passive Way, Str+Dex+Int+Wis+SA to damage, Str+Wis+2 & opponent doesn't have Dex to AC for attack, you deal quadruple damage on a charge and initiate a free Trip with a decent bonus* and you're not too poor in the skill area.
_{*+31 = 8? (bab) + 2 (str) + 2 (int) + 4 (feat) + 4 (size) + 4 (monk) + 4 (sweep) + 3 (greater rage)}

Isn't really too terrible. Charging for damage overkill but you could split it up between three foes and try to Trip them all, an action that would lead to more attacks in which to kill them or failing that break their Full-Attack for the next round along with the rest of the awesome benefits of a successful trip. Plus for only 8k you can net a +2 bonus to damage and Trip when it comes to looking at items (two +2 items).

wilconran13 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 18, 2011, 03:17:45 AM »

Best Monk Ever:
Start with any huge + wis race, boost wis as much as possible. Take 1 monk level, the Saint template, (+2 LA), 2 levels of Swordsage, 2 levels of Paliden (Serenity feat and the 1 ACF that switches divine grace to AC), and a monk's belt. You nowhave Wis x 5 to AC. Then add 1 Shiba Protector and Intuitive attack for wis x2 to attack and wis to damage.
Vow of Poverty's nice, but it does prevent you from using the magic items that make Monk's viable. Having a Monk's Belt, a Monk's Tattoo, and Superior Unarmed Strike (feat) Raises your unarmed damage to Level 20 with only 7 monk levels. With high AC and strength useless, you're also an extremely SAD character. (only 10's in str and dex necessarily)

SolEiji · « **Reply #19 on:** November 18, 2011, 03:21:09 AM »

Quote from: wilconran13 on November 18, 2011, 03:17:45 AM

Best Monk Ever:
Start with any huge + wis race, boost wis as much as possible. Take 1 monk level, the Saint template, (+2 LA), 2 levels of Swordsage, 2 levels of Paliden (Serenity feat and the 1 ACF that switches divine grace to AC), and a monk's belt. You nowhave Wis x 5 to AC. Then add 1 Shiba Protector and Intuitive attack for wis x2 to attack and wis to damage.
Vow of Poverty's nice, but it does prevent you from using the magic items that make Monk's viable. Having a Monk's Belt, a Monk's Tattoo, and Superior Unarmed Strike (feat) Raises your unarmed damage to Level 20 with only 7 monk levels. With high AC and strength useless, you're also an extremely SAD character. (only 10's in str and dex necessarily)

Swordsage and Monk AC Bonuses don't stack, pretty sure they call it out. The ACF for paladin only lasts for a short time, but DOES stack. And the monk's beld is the monk's AC bonus so it wouldn't stack (though it would improve the monk for other things).

I do like Wis based builds, but their usually built via Inuitive Attack from BoED and a focus on Stunning Fist and other status inducing effects rather than actual damage. It doesn't solo very well, but it makes for a good lockdown to stop enemies while the rest of the party kills it.

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Author Topic: Monk Build Thread (Read 19025 times)