Author Topic: Fun Finds v6.0  (Read 292039 times)

Offline SorO_Lost

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Fun Finds v6.0
« on: May 08, 2014, 05:15:24 PM »
Last thread hit fifty pages, it's time to start a new one.

Previous Threads
Fun finds v5.0
Fun finds v4.0
Fun finds v3.0

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Ethereal Reaver (complete psionic)
One of my personal favorite weapons. The blade of this weapon counts as being on the Material and Ethereal Plane. It's one of the very few methods to attack someone on the Material Plane form the Ethereal Plane, and I believe the only such method that a "mundane" has readily access to.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2014, 05:27:17 PM »
I don't have a find, I just like keeping tabs on these threads.   :)

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2014, 05:52:24 PM »
Wooo! same here
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Offline Ithamar

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2014, 05:58:22 PM »
Ethereal Reaver (complete psionic)
One of my personal favorite weapons. The blade of this weapon counts as being on the Material and Ethereal Plane. It's one of the very few methods to attack someone on the Material Plane form the Ethereal Plane, and I believe the only such method that a "mundane" has readily access to.
That's actually a really nice sword.  Now the rogue with the ring of blink has 0% miss chance!

And the description states that the blade only exists on both planes.  So if you are ethereal, and your foe cannot see ethereal creatures, he only sees a blade floating towards him?  Would they still be flat-footed and/or denied DEX?

Offline Keldar

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2014, 06:06:59 PM »
I have a find (well its new to me.) Vermin Keeper (Underdark 46) gets any vermin of small to large size as a companion at 3rd.  No limits but size.  At the bare minimum, Warbeast is unequvically legal, unlike normal Animal Companions.  The Vermin gets Int 2, and thus the player gets to assign HD+3 skill points and all the feats.

Enjoy a Multiheaded Lyneran Pyro (Savage Species) (15 HD base) Bonespear (Fiend Folio) with 4 heads and 3 attacks per head.  Or a 39 hit die advanced leechwalker from MM2.  Or go safe with a Warbeast (MMII) Knell Beetle (MMIII) With 13 HD and a plethora of bonus feats.  From a 3 level investment in a full casting class that any druid 5 can wander into.

Offline vaz

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2014, 06:40:29 PM »
Was running through some notes I'd made on a Ninja based class regarding that striking from Ethereal - although it only allows one attack, I used it's ability to strike from Ethereal Plane. I then optimized it a bit - combining with Pharaoh's fist - normally a bad move, because it hits adjacent squares - but the thing is, you're on another plane, so you can't be affected by it. It was described as Dynasty Warriors-like, which pretty much sums it up. It's not exactly relevant, but Ethereal Reaver continually came up as I searched for similar affects.

Obtain Familiar has the following verbiage -

Quote
You can obtain a familiar in the same manner as a sorcerer or wizard. As with a sorcerer or wizard, obtaining a familiar cakes 24 hours and uses up magic materials worth 100 gp.
For the purpose of determining familiar abilities that depend on your arcane caster class level, your levels in all classes that allow you to cast arcane spells stack.

Note "allow you to cast arcane spells". What does this mean? Of course, the usual "Rule 0" comment and "wilful misreading" - but "allow you to cast arcane spells" - well, there's only one class which actually prevents you from casting spells, and that's the Forsaker. So assuming you meet the prerequisites - which are Arcane Caster Level 3rd and Knowledge (Arcana) 4 ranks, then you're good to go. Arcane Caster level 3rd can be gained via anything which provides an SLA that does not define a Caster Level lower than 2nd (it defaults to your HD if it's not mentioned), and does not define that the SLA is Divine (for example, a Shyft has Plane Shift as a 9th level cleric, rather than a 13th level Wizard - any SLA which does not mention what kind of SLA it is default to Sor/Wiz, and hence Arcane).

Then, something else hit me.

A Psionic Character with access to the Magic Mantle's power has the ability to treat his Psi-like Ability as a Spell-like Ability. Which provides him with an Arcane Caster level equal to his HD. So not only does he qualify for Obtain Familiar (and then have ability = HD, provided you don't take Forsaker - but then again, even Forsaker's don't take Forsaker it's that bad), but he can qualify for a class that requires a specific Arcane Caster level (rather than a specifically non-defined Caster level). Of course, his manifesting wouldn't improve, as he doesn't actually have an Arcane Manifesting class (unless of course, said class advanced a non-defined casting class).

No such class springs to mind, and Dndtools is down, and its search function sucks donkey balls anyway, but it's there to have fun with. I love the smell of limburger in the morning.

@Keldar - it might get Int, but it doesn't get those skill points back, nor does it get to choose feats. It requires a Psi-Ref as well.  Pre-errata (unlikely to fly, as it was 3.0ism Swarms), you could pick up Plague Ant Swarms (causes 1 HP Bleeding damage per wound), while Bloodfiend Locust Swarms get Energy Drain (1 level per HIT), which reanimates as Vampire Spawn. Rapture Swarms get Hypnotic Pattern (DC15, CL6) and effectively Dazes opponents (DC18). Scarab Swarms DC21 for 1d6 Con damage - and Wasp Swarms have 1d6 dex poison (DC18).

Offline FlaminCows

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2014, 08:27:44 PM »
Yeah, that's willful misreading. I also misread your comment before, so I hope that makes it even!  :P
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 09:05:46 PM by FlaminCows »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2014, 08:50:15 PM »
Note "allow you to cast arcane spells". What does this mean? Of course, the usual "Rule 0" comment and "wilful misreading" - but "allow you to cast arcane spells" - well, there's only one class which actually prevents you from casting spells, and that's the Forsaker.
*groans*

That is the willful misreading.
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Offline vaz

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2014, 09:26:40 PM »
Well, if "allow" is the opposite of "prevent", fighter does let you cast spells =D.

Offline FlaminCows

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2014, 10:02:12 PM »
The rules are not made to be read by a computer. If it is obvious what the rule really means, then you should not try to use semantics to try and make it mean something else.

Offline Keldar

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2014, 11:48:24 PM »

@Keldar - it might get Int, but it doesn't get those skill points back, nor does it get to choose feats. It requires a Psi-Ref as well.  Pre-errata (unlikely to fly, as it was 3.0ism Swarms), you could pick up Plague Ant Swarms (causes 1 HP Bleeding damage per wound), while Bloodfiend Locust Swarms get Energy Drain (1 level per HIT), which reanimates as Vampire Spawn. Rapture Swarms get Hypnotic Pattern (DC15, CL6) and effectively Dazes opponents (DC18). Scarab Swarms DC21 for 1d6 Con damage - and Wasp Swarms have 1d6 dex poison (DC18).
That was paraphrasing the text, not extrapolating.  It explicitly gets skill points and feats of the player's choice.  They also explicitly lose the mindless quality for what its worth, and gain access to tricks.  The text actually spells out all the details.  For bloody once.
While Swarms won't work for the companion, wrong sizes, the class does get to wildshape into Vermin swarms eventually.  So all those are still relevant.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2014, 12:17:28 AM »
I have a find (well its new to me.) Vermin Keeper (Underdark 46) gets any vermin of small to large size as a companion at 3rd.  No limits but size.  At the bare minimum, Warbeast is unequvically legal, unlike normal Animal Companions.  The Vermin gets Int 2, and thus the player gets to assign HD+3 skill points and all the feats.

Enjoy a Multiheaded Lyneran Pyro (Savage Species) (15 HD base) Bonespear (Fiend Folio) with 4 heads and 3 attacks per head.  Or a 39 hit die advanced leechwalker from MM2.  Or go safe with a Warbeast (MMII) Knell Beetle (MMIII) With 13 HD and a plethora of bonus feats.  From a 3 level investment in a full casting class that any druid 5 can wander into.

there's a slight problem... It says the vermin's stats must be listed in the Monster Manual, unfortunately, this limits the options. Since it says 'the' Monster Manual, this means only the first.

but I believed it was the same way as you, but was shown differently.

but one of the alternate paladins in #310 has no such restrictions (the CG one?)
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Offline altpersona

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2014, 06:45:54 AM »
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=13562  :P


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Offline Amechra

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2014, 01:02:03 AM »
I just noticed that the Zombie and Skeleton templates only get rid of Alignment and "creature type" subtypes.

So they retain stuff like the Fire subtype or the like. Which is... OK, I guess.

Now, the Void subtype on the hand is pretty great. Yes, I would like my Undead to essentially have permanent Ex invisibility, thank you very much!
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Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2014, 02:35:42 AM »
I just noticed that the Zombie and Skeleton templates only get rid of Alignment and "creature type" subtypes.

So they retain stuff like the Fire subtype or the like. Which is... OK, I guess.

Now, the Void subtype on the hand is pretty great. Yes, I would like my Undead to essentially have permanent Ex invisibility, thank you very much!

...so what you are saying is I can have these?

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2014, 05:25:41 PM »
How does the void subtype work w Mirror Image?
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Offline nijineko

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2014, 05:37:21 PM »
where are two and one.

Offline FlaminCows

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2014, 06:17:24 PM »
How does the void subtype work w Mirror Image?
It creates multiple illusiory figments of the void creature, and you can't see any of them. So unless the opponent has some way of bypassing invisibility, the figments are of no effect.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2014, 01:52:58 PM »
No real Google hits for Void Disciple and TO...

Void Disciple tutelage for early entry, a TO based concept.
Caster 7 / Void Disciple 4 decides to sponsor and train a Wizard to follow in his footsteps. Giving his Horseshoes of Flame to a 5th level Wizard and casting Fox's Cunning on them the Wizard's Intelligence is increase to 32 (18 base, +10 unnamed, +4 enhance). Using Moment of Clarity the Wizard is granted 10 Ranks in Spellcraft.
Quote from: CD73
The target gains either one feat or a number of ranks in one skill equal to his relevant ability modifier for that skill.
Initially, the Wizard can only use his Void Disciple Class Features under the direct tutelage of his trainer (cough, moment of clarity) but eventually the Wizard will level up enough to sustain the Skill Rank Requirement without it. The overall payout of course is access to PrC Features sooner than normal. For example Wizard 5 / Void Disciple 4 obtains Moment of Clarity two levels sooner than normal.

This tutelage concept can of course be used to bypass all sorts of Skill-Based requirements far better than that 3rd Party Ravenloft Feat. Neither the FAQ or Errata has nerfed this.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 01:58:28 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Fun Finds v6.0
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2014, 05:38:50 PM »
Dying curses (Book of Vile Darkness, p28) are pretty scary. 

No action is listed, but it seems pretty clear that it's meant to be used in response to dying.  It would probably have been an immediate action if those had existed at the time the book was written.  As it stands, it's an open question if you can use a dying curse when completely surprised by your death. 

As far as I can tell, there's no save allowed against a dying curse.  There's no DC listed, and it's not a spell-like ability, so there's no default.  Even if it's a supernatural ability (which seems the best fit), it would need to specify an ability score to be used. 

If the character delivering the curse has at least 11 HD, remove curse can't remove it, only wish or miracle.  There also has to be some built-in way of removing the curse that can be completed within a year.  You could probably choose "spend 52 consecutive weeks in the gray wastes of Hades" as the condition that removes the curse though. 

The target of the curse doesn't have to be present.  As far as I can tell, they don't even need to be on the same plane of existence. 

If the character delivering the curse has at least 9 HD, one of the possible effects is "The target cannot cast spells, use spell-like abilities, or activate spell completion or spell trigger items." 

It's surprising how much you can screw someone over if you hate them enough to kill yourself.  Better yet, be a thrallherd and order your thrall to kill himself and deliver a dying curse.