Author Topic: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?  (Read 24963 times)

Offline Masakan

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Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« on: October 09, 2015, 04:33:22 PM »
Pretty straight forward. I kinda want a list of spells that would be limited or otherwise black listed to keep a campaign from being too overly trite
The only one I really know for sure is the Polymorph Line and pretty much Half of the Level 9 spells(Though I personally think a campaign should end at level 15.)
In any case what other spells would a DM potentially forbid?

Offline Libertad

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2015, 05:15:46 PM »
Orgasmic Vibrations.

Offline Masakan

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2015, 05:20:31 PM »
and I just wasted my time...typical.

Offline Amechra

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2015, 06:09:18 PM »
Pretty straight forward. I kinda want a list of spells that would be limited or otherwise black listed to keep a campaign from being too overly trite
The only one I really know for sure is the Polymorph Line and pretty much Half of the Level 9 spells(Though I personally think a campaign should end at level 15.)
In any case what other spells would a DM potentially forbid?

Libertad is being a doof. Don't listen to 'em (Orgasmic Vibrations is a wonderful spell that should be in every campaign.)

More seriously, it depends on what you are going for - some DMs ban Rope Trick and long-distance teleports, while others are going to ban stuff like the Arcane Fusion and Celerity lines.
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Offline Masakan

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2015, 06:12:08 PM »
Teleport I get but why Celerity? Hell why Arcane fusion? Since A it's a sorcerer exclusive spell, and B Sorcerers don't have many spells to work with anyway.

Offline KellKheraptis

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2015, 06:59:12 PM »
Teleport I get but why Celerity? Hell why Arcane fusion? Since A it's a sorcerer exclusive spell, and B Sorcerers don't have many spells to work with anyway.

On this board, <class here> only is at very worst an inconvenience, not a hard and fast rule :)

Offline Vladeshi

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2015, 07:10:02 PM »
Celerity is often considered broken due to the ability to interrupt someone's turn.
Say an enemy was a wizard and nobody realized it until they started casting a spell.
You use Celerity and use another spell to cause that DC 10 + damage dealt concentration check or they fail their spell, or knowing wizard hit points possibly just kill him.
Combine it with one of the few ways to negate the dazed condition so you don't lose you next turn and you can make someone have a very bad day.
This is just a basic example, I am sure others could come up with far crazier ways to abuse Celerity.
The following explanation has been removed due to time constraints, character limits on posts, and the DC 30 Spellcraft checks to understand large portions of it.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2015, 08:13:38 PM »
Celerity is often considered broken due to the ability to interrupt someone's turn.
Say an enemy was a wizard and nobody realized it until they started casting a spell.
You use Celerity and use another spell to cause that DC 10 + damage dealt concentration check or they fail their spell, or knowing wizard hit points possibly just kill him.
Combine it with one of the few ways to negate the dazed condition so you don't lose you next turn and you can make someone have a very bad day.
This is just a basic example, I am sure others could come up with far crazier ways to abuse Celerity.
Celerity, basically, can mean that you never lose initiative. That's kinda OP if your casters are also speccing for save-or-die / save-or-suck, where that one action can easily mean a PC dying / the battle swinging into a TPK. (or, on the other hand, making any and all encounters a piece of cake)

Offline Libertad

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2015, 10:38:04 PM »
On a serious note, I'd probably ban Fabricate and Major Creation unless I set down some restrictions, in the sheer utility of being able to create and process all sorts of stuff can be quite deadly.  Plus replicating expensive material components for spells.

Offline Solo

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2015, 11:39:05 PM »
Simulacrum
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2015, 12:33:27 AM »
Celerity is often considered broken due to the ability to interrupt someone's turn.
Say an enemy was a wizard and nobody realized it until they started casting a spell.
You use Celerity and use another spell to cause that DC 10 + damage dealt concentration check or they fail their spell, or knowing wizard hit points possibly just kill him.
Combine it with one of the few ways to negate the dazed condition so you don't lose you next turn and you can make someone have a very bad day.
This is just a basic example, I am sure others could come up with far crazier ways to abuse Celerity.
Celerity, basically, can mean that you never lose initiative. That's kinda OP if your casters are also speccing for save-or-die / save-or-suck, where that one action can easily mean a PC dying / the battle swinging into a TPK. (or, on the other hand, making any and all encounters a piece of cake)

Nitpick, but although I agree that the celerity line is borked, auto-winning Initiative isn't one of them. That's because it still takes an Immediate action to activate, and you can't use Immediate actions if you're flatfooted. And you're automatically flatfooted if you lose initiative until it's your normal turn to act.

Offline zugschef

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2015, 04:30:10 AM »
Power word: pain.

Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2015, 10:50:28 AM »
I usually don't ban anything, and let someone at the table abuse it once before I suggest a gentleman's agreement either not to use it in an abusive way or ban it outright.

Here "suggest" means I'm going to ban or nerf it, but I let the players have input, usually the players that aren't abusing some trick will back me up and the players end up thinking that they decided to ban/nerf it.

If the players don't see the problem, I go and make an entire NPC village's economy based on that exploit, or perhaps a band of mercenaries, all using that OP trick.

Usually, it never comes up, but when it does we end up with a personal experience to back up why that thing should be changed.  I also give all players the opportunity to re-spec for free after any new house rule(between sessions).
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Offline Gazzien

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2015, 12:22:51 PM »
Celerity is often considered broken due to the ability to interrupt someone's turn.
Say an enemy was a wizard and nobody realized it until they started casting a spell.
You use Celerity and use another spell to cause that DC 10 + damage dealt concentration check or they fail their spell, or knowing wizard hit points possibly just kill him.
Combine it with one of the few ways to negate the dazed condition so you don't lose you next turn and you can make someone have a very bad day.
This is just a basic example, I am sure others could come up with far crazier ways to abuse Celerity.
Celerity, basically, can mean that you never lose initiative. That's kinda OP if your casters are also speccing for save-or-die / save-or-suck, where that one action can easily mean a PC dying / the battle swinging into a TPK. (or, on the other hand, making any and all encounters a piece of cake)

Nitpick, but although I agree that the celerity line is borked, auto-winning Initiative isn't one of them. That's because it still takes an Immediate action to activate, and you can't use Immediate actions if you're flatfooted. And you're automatically flatfooted if you lose initiative until it's your normal turn to act.
Completely forgot about that. Too used to a contingent celerity tied to a nerveskitter to actually remember how it worked.

Honestly, I'd probably ban Contingency, or at least give a restricted list of spells it works with (like Permanency).

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2015, 11:42:37 AM »
I tend to avoid serious divination.  Some of my friends don't like it as GMs, as they then have to answer questions they aren't great at, and it can really skew combat encounters given the way buffing works in D&D. 

In many campaigns, long-distance teleportation can also short-circuit an adventure.

The rest really depends on the campaign and tone.  If I want my game to have a weary "Band of Brothers" feel, I'll excise Rope Trick and similar spells so the threat is always there.  Stuff like that. 

Some Teleportation and Divination are the big flags generally, though.  Oddly, I don't have a huge problem with polymorph effects.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2015, 01:10:04 PM »
Aside from certain spell lines (like polymorph, clones, etc): 63 spells excluding their "greater" variations.

I suppose I really should release my 3.5 complete balancing errata-homebrew, huh?

Offline Solo

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2015, 01:26:39 PM »
Aside from certain spell lines (like polymorph, clones, etc): 63 spells excluding their "greater" variations.

I suppose I really should release my 3.5 complete balancing errata-homebrew, huh?
I am firmly behind this idea, for that is the best way to stab it in the back.
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Offline Kaelik

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2015, 01:05:21 AM »
Aside from certain spell lines (like polymorph, clones, etc): 63 spells excluding their "greater" variations.

I suppose I really should release my 3.5 complete balancing errata-homebrew, huh?
I am firmly behind this idea, for that is the best way to stab it in the back.

I said this exact thing like two weeks ago. :)

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2015, 07:30:53 PM »
I suggest houseruling instead of banning.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 07:33:23 PM by ImperatorK »
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Offline Ice9

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Re: Spells that you would typically ban from a campaign?
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2015, 02:59:41 PM »
Ice Assassin and Simulacrum will make the game all about them, if allowed.  There are actually a few permutations:

1) The components (piece of the creature, gold, and xp) can be ignored by the usual methods.
Result: Everyone who reaches that level of casting (or Wish-bootstraps their way into it) can have as large an army of arbitrarily powerful creatures as they want.

2) The components can't be ignored by any means.  IA is allowed. 
Result: Getting pieces of powerful creatures (and making sure nobody gets a piece of you) becomes incredibly important, possibly the biggest focus of the game.  People don't have NI armies, but they do have strike teams, especially of any monster that hits above its HD weight class.

3) The components can't be ignored by any means.  IA not allowed but Simulacrum is.
Result: Like #2, but because of the half-power thing, someone having a piece of you isn't quite as bad, and your personal minions won't be as strong as the very strongest creatures out there.  In this case (and #2), it becomes very important whether the Simulacrum has all the memories of the original (not clear from the spell).

I wouldn't run a game with #1, but I might run one with #2 or #3, if I wanted to make that a major theme of the campaign.