Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!

[SorO_Lost]

Simply put; once you changed race to qualify for the second PrC, you would no longer meet the prerequisites for the first.  This isn't from the PrC's themselves, but rather an outside factor.

Actually it's a PrC making the change so I'm not sure how you're calling it an outside factor. Dragon Disciple is "externally" outsourcing to the Half-Dragon Template too you know, and you should probably check the FAQ's expansion on CW's second paragraph in that depending on how you no longer meet requirements you may only lose what is directly required.

But to be honest, I will concede it probably doesn't work in the first place after rereading it abit. The problem is Type/Subtype are part of a Race's Racial Features and there isn't rules on what you gain only what you don't which certainly says no on at least several Class Features. In other words a Human to Elf is still a Humanoid(Human) and there are no rules proving it picks up Low-Light Vision. Further the sentence this is called out in is primarily discussing your appearance. I don't feel it truly points in the direction of an actual Race change to count for a new PrC which would also mean it can't invalidate the last anyway.

[snakeman830]

Dragon Disciple granting Half Dragon-> disqualification due to type change is an internal factor.  It is one of the PrC's features itself that disqualifies you, so it can be assumed that it actually does not.

Shaper of Form changing race -> disqualification from racial requirement PrC's is an external factor.  This is not the PrC that requires a particular race disqualifying you.  This is a separate thing.

It's like if you took levels in Soul Eater, then went through and completed Walker in the Waste.  Soul Eater didn't disqualify you from Soul Eater, Walker in the Waste did.

EDIT:

Renaissance: The shaper of form changes race, gender, or general physical appearance. She cannot change type and no ability score adjustments occur as a result of the change. So if the character is weak and becomes an orc, she becomes a weak orc. The shaper of form cannot choose to become a member of a race with a level adjustment.

It looks like this should be enough to qualify for different race stuff in most cases.  It says nothing about subtypes one way or another, but it does say the race does change.  Now, it wouldn't work for, say, turning from a Human into an Elan and trying to take Rapidstrike, as your type would still be Humanoid, but it could work for qualifying for Elan Resilience, Enhanced.

[SorO_Lost]

It looks like this should be enough to qualify for different race stuff in most cases.

Maybe but you can't have it both ways Snake.

Modify Self (Ex): At 1st level and every three levels thereafter (at 4th, 7th, and 10th level), the shaper of form can gain one effect from the following list, achieved through applying shaping magic to her own body. The effect is permanent. The shaper of form can choose the same ability more than once—the effects of each ability stack with themselves.

Human->Elf stacks with Elf->Human so you would look funny but more importantly you'd count as a member of of the Human & Elf Races because no one proof read the entry before cranking it out.

The problem is, and as I spoke of last go, counting as a member of a Race may not be sufficient. We're essentially walking down a road that Changlings have already been down with their Racial Emulation Feat except that Feat was kind enough to further explain counting as a member of a race only goes so far as for Magic Items & Spells rather than the mechanical traits requirements check. Further, while the PHB2's Changing Your Race section does go on to confirm PrC loss, it also requires loss of your previous Racial Traits which is something Modify Self does not do.

I will swipe the more improved line of internal/external thought through. It's nice to see some cohesive logic for a change.

[altpersona]

bloodlines / legacy champ? 

[Chemus]

...We're essentially walking down a road that Changlings have already been down with their Racial Emulation Feat except that Feat was kind enough to further explain counting as a member of a race only goes so far as for Magic Items & Spells rather than the mechanical traits requirements check...

Rehashing:

...Though you do not gain any of the humanoid’s traits, you are considered to be a member of that race for all other purposes (allowing you to use magic items or spells keyed to race, for example)...

Emphasis mine.

[Sinfire Titan]

An update to an old combo: We all remember the Abyssal Specialist (DotU)+Planar Wizard 10 (PLH)+Chaotic Spell Recall (FC1) trick right? Well, according to the text, you can still take Focused Specialist. The cost is steep (10 levels of Wizard, no PrCs until then, can't use Martial Wizard), but the payout is GODLIKE POWER BEYOND ANY SPECIALIST VARIANT.

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Abyssal Specialist: You have specialized in spells that have the Chaotic, Compulsion, Darkness, Evil, and Fear descriptors (yes, any and all of those are your specialty school). You sacrifice one school of magic, just like a Diviner does.

Planar Wizard 10: All spells you know can now have the alignment descriptor of your choice applied permanently. Pick Chaos, it's the best one. You are now specialized in every spell in your spellbook, regardless of school.

Chaotic Spell Recall: 1/day/2 Abyssal Heritor feats you possess you can use a Swift action to regain an expended spell that has the Chaotic descriptor. Due to prereqs it's usable 2/day at the start, and you can use Embrace the Dark Chaos (don't need Shun at all) to get more uses without sacrificing your build's feat selection. At half the cost of the normal DCFS effects.

Is it a dirty trick? Yeah, but this one is indisputable by RAW and RAI. Oh, and since you're spending so many levels in Wizard, you can trade your 5th level feat for the Domain Granted Power to get the benefits of the Chaos domain (+1 CL to any Chaotic spell, which is again every spell you can cast).

[Chemus]

 

Focused specialist, +1 CL for Chaotic spells...

Go full on roquefort and add on ScM... Dumping evocation, of course.

[kitep]

Chaotic Spell Recall: 1/day/2 Abyssal Heritor feats you possess you can use a Swift action to regain an expended spell that has the Chaotic descriptor. Due to prereqs it's usable 2/day at the start, and you can use Embrace the Dark Chaos (don't need Shun at all) to get more uses without sacrificing your build's feat selection. At half the cost of the normal DCFS effects.

I don't understand how Embrace the Dark Chaos gets you more uses.  You can change your feats but you still have the same number of feats, thus the same number of chaotic spell recall uses.  What am I missing?

[SorO_Lost]

I don't understand how Embrace the Dark Chaos gets you more uses.  You can change your feats but you still have the same number of feats, thus the same number of chaotic spell recall uses.  What am I missing?

You trade away Scribe Scroll, same number of Feats but now you have one less Item Creation and one more Heritor.

Now imagine tacking on a fallacy of association over how Feats can buy Proficiencies to claim Race/Class Granted Proficiencies are Feats and then you can take even more.

We all remember the Abyssal Specialist (DotU)+Planar Wizard 10 (PLH)+Chaotic Spell Recall (FC1) trick right?

Yeah, I just updated and posted it but I used Dragon Magazine to snag the Chaotic Descriptor (and +1cl vs lawful targets) at the first level of Wizard giving you plenty of room to pick up Shadowcraft Mage & Mage of the Arcane Order as well. And don't forget Nightmare Spinner's bonus Illusion Slots. 

[Sinfire Titan]

Chaotic Spell Recall: 1/day/2 Abyssal Heritor feats you possess you can use a Swift action to regain an expended spell that has the Chaotic descriptor. Due to prereqs it's usable 2/day at the start, and you can use Embrace the Dark Chaos (don't need Shun at all) to get more uses without sacrificing your build's feat selection. At half the cost of the normal DCFS effects.

I don't understand how Embrace the Dark Chaos gets you more uses.  You can change your feats but you still have the same number of feats, thus the same number of chaotic spell recall uses.  What am I missing?

Embrace lets you trade out feats for more Heritor feats, and Chaotic Spell Recall can be used 1/day/2 Heritor feats.

And SorO:

Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats.

You covered Scribe Scroll. All that's needed are some class-granted bonus feats that don't have a value to you to shuffle away. Several PrCs grant such things, or Monk 1 to grant 2 bonus feats.

[SorO_Lost]

And SorO:

That doesn't say Minotaur's Proficiency with a Great Axe is a Feat or refute that it's Feat entry says it only gains three for it's HD which excludes it's separate Proficiency entry. Likewise it doesn't change the entry on RHD/Type or assert Class-granted are multiple Feats either. 

It's just a special snowflake that by it's specific wording gets to play. And if you're a Spellcaster, picking up Feats through WBL is better than losing levels for them.

[Sinfire Titan]

So a couple of the Truenamer spells are actually pretty interesting, providing you can make the DCs work for you (a little Guidance of the Avatar never hurts, does it?). The good news is the law of resistance doesn't apply to them, so the DCs are "static".

Bulwark of Reality: You need to say your own personal Truename, but it's a more powerful Mage Armor (shorter duration, but whatever). +6 AC for a 1st level spell isn't too shabby, and 1 minute/level is enough time for a few encounters for a dungeon crawl. There's a few other buff spells in here too, but the Cleric ones have a really short duration.

Scramble True Position: My favorite Truespeech Spell. If you make the standard DC 15+CR*2 check, everything in a 10ft radius burst (Close range) gets teleported 10ft in a random direction without being allowed a save. They get a save to avoid being knocked prone by the teleportation, but the only defense is SR (which is trivial for a good Wizard). How good is this? Anticipate Teleportation turns it into an extra turn for the whole party, Greater makes it a Time Stop. Divert Teleport makes it so you can control the teleportation, making combing the Anticipate Teleportation even better.

Warp Truename: A save and still suck for beatsticks, but a real save or be utterly screwed for everyone else. You set their Str/Dex/Con to 10 (!!!), drop their speeds (all of them) to 20ft, and replace all of its natural attacks with a single Slam, regardless of the save's outcome, and then shut off all Ex, SUs, SLs, or spellcasting abilities (and, by transparency, manifesting). They keep BAB, HD, base saves, and magic items. This spell is perfect for Chain spell.

[Amechra]

Speaking of Truenaming, the Disciple of the Word is an interesting class that can be entered pretty easily with a two-level Monk dip.

Since they aren't Utterances, the different Words don't have to deal with the Laws of Resistance/Sequence. There are also some neat effects, like replacing a bunch of skill checks with Truespeak checks, using a Truespeak check in place of a Reflex save, etc, etc.

[Nytemare3701]

Speaking of Truenaming, the Disciple of the Word is an interesting class that can be entered pretty easily with a two-level Monk dip.

Since they aren't Utterances, the different Words don't have to deal with the Laws of Resistance/Sequence. There are also some neat effects, like replacing a bunch of skill checks with Truespeak checks, using a Truespeak check in place of a Reflex save, etc, etc.

"Hey, you know that class that is a silly hodgepodge of ki abilities? Let's add more and gate it behind a skill nobody uses."

[SorO_Lost]

"Hey, you know that class that is a silly hodgepodge of ki abilities? Let's add more and gate it behind a skill nobody uses."

Pretty much.

Speaking of the Spells you should have mentioned Unname. It's obscure enough anyone would simply try to Resurrect them normally and fail which is nice. But it can serve as a thoughtful touch if your PCs are expecting a quest to locate a lost soul of the dead guy and instead receive a quest to locate the only guy that ever cared to record the Spell. It can also serve to increase the hype of a BBEG, instead of a generic "oh he was banished by such and such" you could be like "He who we cannot name is not a silly pun as he is in fact an unnamed creature. The gods them selves banished him from the world for his deeds in such a way that the reality rejects the very presence of his true name. It cannot be said for it cannot be known."

[Amechra]

Speaking of Truenaming, the Disciple of the Word is an interesting class that can be entered pretty easily with a two-level Monk dip.

Since they aren't Utterances, the different Words don't have to deal with the Laws of Resistance/Sequence. There are also some neat effects, like replacing a bunch of skill checks with Truespeak checks, using a Truespeak check in place of a Reflex save, etc, etc.

"Hey, you know that class that is a silly hodgepodge of ki abilities? Let's add more and gate it behind a skill nobody uses."

It also both advances and doesn't advance Flurry of Blows. Now that's fancy.

[SorO_Lost]

It also both advances and doesn't advance Flurry of Blows. Now that's fancy.

I'm pretty sure the third paragraph is an extension of the second, or a continuance of if you are not a Monk. I agree it could have been written better though.

[Sinfire Titan]

It can also serve to increase the hype of a BBEG, instead of a generic "oh he was banished by such and such" you could be like "He who we cannot name is not a silly pun as he is in fact an unnamed creature. The gods them selves banished him from the world for his deeds in such a way that the reality rejects the very presence of his true name. It cannot be said for it cannot be known."

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Sounds like the lore for the Nameless King.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Truespeak Monk eh?  Too bad it works off of Stunning Fist uses. 
Skill Checks go +++ much more obviously and easily, than Caster Level checks.
Still, that keeps pace with the Big Guns ...

We all remember the Abyssal Specialist (DotU)+Planar Wizard 10 (PLH)+Chaotic Spell Recall (FC1) trick right?

Yeah, I just updated and posted it but I used Dragon Magazine to snag the Chaotic Descriptor (and +1cl vs lawful targets) at the first level of Wizard giving you plenty of room to pick up Shadowcraft Mage & Mage of the Arcane Order as well. And don't forget Nightmare Spinner's bonus Illusion Slots. 

Ahh nice add on, to a very tasty combo.  Dr#357 has the feat to skips over Planar Wizard 10. (oh yep SorO references in his guide)

[Sinfire Titan]

Shockwave and Force Hammer (both from Sharn, City of Towers) are low-level Save or Daze. Shockwave is a 3rd level 20ft radius out to close range (ideal for Sculpting), and Force Hammer is a 2nd level ray (metamagic the hell out of it). Unfortunately neither affects Constructs or Undead, but getting a little (nonlethal) damage in and dazing multiple targets is good for a pair of Evocation spells.