Author Topic: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood  (Read 301777 times)

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #320 on: March 09, 2012, 06:54:58 AM »
Seems to me that he left plenty of hooks open to plug in a second story to, if hes inclined. Only now he can afford to self publish.

We ought to do a Negima PBP for the hell of it.

Freeform or otherwise, I am interested already.
Mutants & Masterminds is generally the easiest way, but that's almost too easy.
Beats GURPS.  :p

Amusingly, Negi is a D&D vancian spellcaster no matter how you look at him. He prepares his spells in advance, can't change them in the fly, and has a variety of personal-only buffs that allow him to surpass the world's top fighters, despite said fighters having super-artifacts. They even have the regular HP system where they just keep beating each other whitout loss of combat ability until one drops, and the ocasional don't-save-just-die like the time bullets. :smirk
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 06:57:58 AM by oslecamo »

Offline veekie

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #321 on: March 09, 2012, 07:08:28 AM »
Yeah, you just need different spells as a basis, possibly differing classes. The series however, seems to work on a Spells Known basis, learning new spells is a nontrivial effort. Negi's combat style is anomalous for the setting, since he makes use of a variant Delayed spell(it looks like its basically the Delay spell metamagic, except the spells 'hang' on him, and are released when the condition is met rather than the preset time)

Could probably fit Exalted as well, with most people using only Sorcery(Mana) and Martial Arts(Ki) stuff.
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #322 on: March 09, 2012, 07:20:15 AM »
Yeah, you just need different spells as a basis, possibly differing classes. The series however, seems to work on a Spells Known basis, learning new spells is a nontrivial effort.
Define "nontrivial". Negi and all the magic girls are each easily learning new spells all the time in a matter of few days each time. You can't get closer to D&D wizards learning new spells than that.

Negi's combat style is anomalous for the setting, since he makes use of a variant Delayed spell(it looks like its basically the Delay spell metamagic, except the spells 'hang' on him, and are released when the condition is met rather than the preset time)
You just described vancian basic casting. They have spell slots. They ready spells on them. They cast them when they want them.

Offline veekie

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #323 on: March 09, 2012, 07:30:11 AM »
When power leveling, they do learn fast. However, each new spell learned is a significant step up in character power.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #324 on: March 09, 2012, 07:41:24 AM »
-Each new spell= significant step up in character power.
-Spending some days just learning new spells= multiple significant steps up in character power.
-Multiple significant steps up in character power=power leveling.
-Negi casters are D&D wizards that periodically sit down to greatly extend to their reportoire and thus increase their power whitout actually needing combat exp=true.

I rest my case.

Offline Agita

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #325 on: March 09, 2012, 08:09:52 AM »
No. Negi specifically (and probably Yue) is a Wizard. He is explictily extraordinarily good at developing and learning new spells. Negi isn't representative for all mages just because he's the one we see the most.
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Offline Prime32

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #326 on: March 09, 2012, 08:32:53 AM »
Amusingly, Negi is a D&D vancian spellcaster no matter how you look at him. He prepares his spells in advance, can't change them in the fly
Most delayed spells are short-term though. It's closer to spell flower (hold the charge for a touch spell in each hand) than prepared casting. I suppose you could say that Yue used the Arcane Preparation feat to prep a Silent Stilled remove paralysis though.

Did an attempt at statting the kind of techniques Negi uses here (using Legend, but adapatable).

Offline littha

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #327 on: March 09, 2012, 09:23:17 AM »
Evangeline seems to be some sort of Gish/Thrallheard/Wizard thing with a high ECL race... though she arguably just has more levels than everyone else...

Offline veekie

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #328 on: March 09, 2012, 12:23:34 PM »
Evangeline is basically that yes. Actually, her entire close combat ability boils down to A) is an invulnerable B) superhumanly strong C) superhumanly fast D) just that experienced. She after all, invented a non-magical martial art(distinct from the ki-using arts like ninjutsu or shinmeryu) in her free time. Against a specialist close combatant of her level she won't be doing so hot, but then its not like theres anyone of her level short of the Lifemaker.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline Prime32

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #329 on: March 09, 2012, 12:34:48 PM »
She after all, invented a non-magical martial art(distinct from the ki-using arts like ninjutsu or shinmeryu) in her free time.
Seems like an argument for scaling feats. Take one at lv17 and you know a whole new combat style.

Offline veekie

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #330 on: March 09, 2012, 01:01:50 PM »
Well, thats one reason to mention the Exalted take on it, Evangeline would be pretty much a high xp Solar Circle sorceror or Void Circle necromancer(i.e. the highest circles of magic in the system, which also takes the longest to cast), plus mastery of one Terrestrial Martial Art(the lowest circle of martial art), and a number of Abyssal general charms.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline Agita

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #331 on: March 09, 2012, 01:07:36 PM »
Well, thats one reason to mention the Exalted take on it, Evangeline would be pretty much a high xp Solar Circle sorceror or Void Circle necromancer(i.e. the highest circles of magic in the system, which also takes the longest to cast), plus mastery of one Terrestrial Martial Art(the lowest circle of martial art), and a number of Abyssal general charms.
Or both. That's what Akuma and/or that one bullshit artifact are for (Urge: Do Nagi, or possibly Troll Negi).
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 01:10:58 PM by Agita »
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Offline Sinfire Titan

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #332 on: March 09, 2012, 04:41:06 PM »
I'd probably just freeform it. Given how many types of magic are present in the series (where even the language the spell is incanted in has a huge impact on the outcome), it would probably be easier.
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Offline Prime32

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #333 on: March 09, 2012, 05:01:26 PM »
Something FATE-based? Wushu? Risus? You don't have to define all the effects of an ability ahead of time with a system like those.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 05:03:46 PM by Prime32 »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #334 on: March 09, 2012, 05:11:09 PM »
I'd probably just freeform it. Given how many types of magic are present in the series (where even the language the spell is incanted in has a huge impact on the outcome), it would probably be easier.

Again, D&D. Prepared, spontaneous, biding, Tob supernatural schools, warlock, incarnum, psionics, what other system has so many diferent types of magic? :p

Offline veekie

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #335 on: March 09, 2012, 11:08:35 PM »
I'd probably just freeform it. Given how many types of magic are present in the series (where even the language the spell is incanted in has a huge impact on the outcome), it would probably be easier.
For the most part it seems to boil down to three branches really.
You have Magic(drawing external energy), Ki(using internal energy) and innate powers(stuff like alternate forms, etc).
For magic itself, you have elemental variances, and each element has its own rider effects.
You also have regular spells(which as far as I know, can be done in pretty much any non-contemporaneous language and resolve fairly quickly) up to High Ancient spells(which take significant time to incant, and are mainly in ancient greek).
You have the eastern style, which uses shikigami and ofuda rather than the incanted methods of western style, but for which high magic is still an incanted ritual. Beyond this is personal magic quirks and sub specialties like potions(stored spell effects), delayed magic(short duration contingent spells), transformations(buffs basically), summons, etc. There is also Rakan. Hes just...Rakan.
Most of this fits into a wide array of systems, since it works off standard JRPG tropes(ranging from MP to magic archetypes), so anything which can emulate those can emulate it.

D&D matches to some degree, and can reproduce most of the effects, but has issues ranging from minor(spells use an point system apparently, effects tend to have large spectacular primary/secondary explosions, spells known system, blasting works, mages only use a bare handful of closely themed spells instead of a wide array of disparate spells, most of these can be worked off modified psionics) to great(casting time is the major one,  default incantation time exceeds common D&D rounds, and anyone trying High Ancient cast times in D&D will never finish them).

FATE, of course, always works, but it seems the spells used are not THAT flexible on a per-character basis that you need to use open ended magic like this. Ditto for Mage.

M&M actually loses out somewhat, since it models the resources poorly. Besides practically everything is a Blast-linked-<foo>.

Exalted's sorcery system fits easily(innately MP , inherently long cast time, greater spells take significantly longer, and cast times for first circle spells can be optimized to take less actions), you would probably need to steal the elemental bolt charms for more basic beamspam as well. Drawback is you're going to have to write most of the spell effects. On the bright side Rakan is basically an out of the box Solar.

Ki stuff varies a good bit, theres 'mundane' martial arts like Ku Fei uses(arguably being able to punch a mountain into pebbles is not all that mundane), ki projection(like that 3d jujutsu guy) internally directed enhancements like ninjutsu, close combat blasting like shinmeryu and Rakan. This also seems to work on an MP system, but it does appear to blow less energy away than sorcery. Ki users don't seem get tired as much.

D&D would be throwing in a mix of regular combat stuff with custom ToB disciplines I guess?

FATE, magic by any other name still works the same.

M&M, also similar to the above, but fatigue is less of a concern, so it does model ki abilities better than it does magic.

Exalted would just use Terrestrial/Supernatural Martial Arts, hadn't seen anything like Sidereal Martial Arts yet.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline Sinfire Titan

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #336 on: March 09, 2012, 11:29:31 PM »
The thing is homebrewing up the stuff for D&D would take a long while, and I'm still working on the Armor/Weapons and Dragonmark fixes.
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Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #337 on: March 09, 2012, 11:52:55 PM »
Would probably be best to either use an open-ended system or freeform the crap out of it.

I'm partial to freeform myself.
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Offline veekie

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #338 on: March 10, 2012, 12:19:26 AM »
In that case, open ended is best, if you intend to do any of the explody bits. Freeform breaks down when resolving conflict, for obvious reasons.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline Prime32

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Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #339 on: March 10, 2012, 10:26:48 PM »
Negima Final Chapter
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 10:28:31 PM by Prime32 »