Author Topic: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics  (Read 44451 times)

Offline Wiggins

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2011, 09:43:53 AM »
Oops, missed that, so you're ok at 28 point buy no flaws after all! Yay!

Edit- misread rebel's post
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 09:49:17 AM by Wiggins »

Offline Tshern

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2011, 09:49:37 AM »
Oops, missed that, so you're ok at 28 point buy no flaws after all! Yay!
You need base save bonus, so Great fortitude would not work anyway.

Quote
Would Practiced Manifester count for access to Level 9 Powers for an Ardent if Rebel's count is right?
He already counted it in. The feat can only be used once for each class, so it won't help the build any further.
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Offline Wiggins

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2011, 09:53:16 AM »
I suppose there's always Supernatural Transformation?

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2011, 10:20:05 AM »
So, I'm going to revise my previous for a version that pulls triple 9s... because I forgot about illumians

Illumian Savage Bard 1/Magic Mantle Ardent 4/Ur Priest 2/Psychic Theurge 3/Sublime Chord 1/Mystic Theurge 5/Cerebremancer 4, which just nets the 17 ML for psi 9s

can you do a manifester level breakdown? how are you getting 17?

4 Ardent
3 Psychic Theurge
4 Cerebremancer
4 Practiced Manifester
1 Krau Sigil
=16
are you using +1 caster level ion stone?

You get 2 from the Krau sigil once you have a 2nd sigil.
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Offline Wiggins

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2011, 10:33:07 AM »
Just checked and Illumians don't get the Human Skill bonus, or the Bonus Feat, and I'm not sure that they can take the Able Learner Feat though they're listed as a Human Variant.

So assuming you can take Able Learner, you'd still need Intelligence 14 and a Flaw, or Intelligence 16 and no flaw (at which point you might get by without Able Learner.

I'm thinking you'd be better off using Human, and taking Supernatural Transformation rather than combining the Krau Sigil and Practiced Manifester.

Offline Tshern

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2011, 10:36:36 AM »
How does Supernatural transformation solve the ML problem?
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Offline Wiggins

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #66 on: December 21, 2011, 10:47:38 AM »
Caster level of spell like ability (manifest ardent powers) becomes equal to her hit dice)

Offline Tshern

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #67 on: December 21, 2011, 10:51:17 AM »
Caster level of spell like ability (manifest ardent powers) becomes equal to her hit dice)
Ardent powers are innate spell-like abilities? Sounds dubious, even with the Magic mantle.
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Offline Wiggins

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #68 on: December 21, 2011, 10:53:46 AM »
Check the wording of the introduction of xph, and the psion entry, they back it up

Offline Tshern

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #69 on: December 21, 2011, 10:57:53 AM »
Check the wording of the introduction of xph, and the psion entry, they back it up
I don't get how they would be spell-like abilities though. They do, for example, have experience costs. The introduction also compares them to spells, not spell-likes.
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Offline DoctorGlock

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #70 on: December 21, 2011, 11:55:53 AM »
illumian +2 has been addresed.

I admit the thing is very very skill tight, and it was built with 32 point buy. Otherwise you can add in templates and LA buy off to get the same. The point is it's doable and doable without beholder mage. Because seriously, F beholder mage.

SRD counts psionics as psi like abilities, which also are valid targets for spell like ability modifying feats. SU transform is a valid target. I did not know about SU abilities going off total HD though, good catch on that, makes the build human friendly.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 11:58:07 AM by DoctorGlock »
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Offline Wiggins

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #71 on: December 21, 2011, 01:42:29 PM »
Apologies for the delay, I had to help my sister get food ready for a party. Thanks to DoctorGlock for saying what I was going to say, and for saying it better than I would have  :cool

Offline DoctorGlock

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #72 on: December 21, 2011, 02:33:42 PM »
You just posted a writeup on GitP (unless there is another Wiggins), did you just run off a copy to check for validity or has this build been done before? I hate feeling clever at coming up with something only to have someone tell me it's been done.
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Offline Rebel7284

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #73 on: December 21, 2011, 02:44:51 PM »
Illumian really should qualify for Able Learner.  Similar to how all the elf sub-races still count as elves and the dwarf sub-races count as dwarfs.

Offline Wiggins

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2011, 02:57:27 PM »
You just posted a writeup on GitP (unless there is another Wiggins), did you just run off a copy to check for validity or has this build been done before? I hate feeling clever at coming up with something only to have someone tell me it's been done.

Just a validity check of sorts. I always do it when I'm worried about Skill Points and so forth, and just added it to the conversation because it was in front of me. I hope I didn't step on any toes.

Offline Tshern

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #75 on: December 21, 2011, 08:58:27 PM »
Apologies for the delay, I had to help my sister get food ready for a party. Thanks to DoctorGlock for saying what I was going to say, and for saying it better than I would have  :cool
Worry not, since yesterday I've had a lot of time.

SRD counts psionics as psi like abilities, which also are valid targets for spell like ability modifying feats. SU transform is a valid target. I did not know about SU abilities going off total HD though, good catch on that, makes the build human friendly.
Quote? Psi-likes are different from powers regarding things like XP costs. But I am eager to be proven wrong. I am quite sure I have seen this debate before. However, I would like to be proven wrong rather than giving up, since I know none of my DMs will give any ground.
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Offline Wiggins

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #76 on: December 21, 2011, 09:36:36 PM »
(click to show/hide)

It then goes on to say that psi-like abilities are like powers, but don't use XP, whereas powers do, which is confusing as a power is a psi-like ability, but is a power... a loop we have to ignore for fear of blue screen of death.

In any case, that's the important bit.

I can't find the reference for Psi-like abilities being able to use feats that apply to Spell-like abilities right now. I have one that specifies Quicken Spell Like and Empower Spell Like can be targeted, and I'm pretty sure that they are the only ones in core. I'm sure I've seen it though.

The tricky part comes in claiming that the Spell-like ability is "Innate".

The Warlock used to try and use this feat, and WotC website had an article or two dedicated to having fun doing so, but an FAQ was quickly released to stop it, because the warlock's description said
(click to show/hide)
, and they argued that his class feature's power was not his innate gift, but the harnessing of it.

However,
(click to show/hide)
No harnessing involved, in fact, it looks like this was worded directly to combat such an argument being levelled against us wanting to do the same.

Offline DoctorGlock

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #77 on: December 22, 2011, 04:06:25 AM »
This time it was Wiggins' turn to say it better. But basically that. With Illumian as the base though it becomes largely unnecessary though.
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Offline Tshern

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Re: Best Ur-Priest builds, including Psionics
« Reply #78 on: December 22, 2011, 06:03:10 PM »
I can't find the reference for Psi-like abilities being able to use feats that apply to Spell-like abilities right now. I have one that specifies Quicken Spell Like and Empower Spell Like can be targeted, and I'm pretty sure that they are the only ones in core. I'm sure I've seen it though.

The tricky part comes in claiming that the Spell-like ability is "Innate".
Seems like a DM fiat to me. Flavour text is just that, flavour. Nothing here shows Supernatural transformation does what you want it to do. I would gladly be proven wrong though.
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