Factotum 4/Cloistered Cleric 1/Chameleon 5 build

[Alexei]

Okay, after the doubts in the Ask a question boards, we came up with something. The build is supposed to be able to contribute in a High-OP party. The components are: Druid/Planar Shepherd, Rogue/unknown, Illusionist/Master specialist/Shadowcraft Mage, Psion, and an unknown player.
So far, the build (he rolled 2 18s, a 17 and a 16)
INT, WIS: 18 each
CON: 16
DEX: 14
rest: whatever

Factotum 4: skills maxed, no Iaijutsu focus because we don't do OA or have the books. Skillmonkey mainly here. Doubt: is Initiative a DEX check? By so I mean, does the INT bonus from Factotum add here?
Cloistered Cleric 1: Knowledge devotion, Trickery devotion, Planning domain (for Extend spell)
Chameleon 5. Main focus in Divine and Arcane. Arcane will be mainly Godwizarding the terrain while Divine buffs the party, adding some Factotum awesomeness.

Feats: Improved Initiative, Obtain Familiar (hummingbird), Able Learner, 4 feats free, ideas?
Flaws are Vulnerable and Inattentive, and the Trait is Aggresive

Magic gear: Headband of INT +2, periapt of WIS +2, gloves of DEX +2, belt of battle, and a couple items which give +2 Init and something else, can't recall the names right now. Cheap MiC options. The final initiative bonus comes at something like +21-22

Any item I should recommend? Ideas? Suggestions? The build is 100% open if it doesn't defy the concept of being able to do a bit of everything

[DavidWL]

Hi!

I love the chameleon class, and have a rather overpowered build which probably closely meets your needs here:  http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1581.msg14985#msg14985

If you are playing besides a planar shepherd and a tweaked out Shadowcraft Mage, etc., then you'll definitely need power.

Some thoughts:
* If you can trade 1 level for the corresponding amount of EXP, you could spend that on some good stuff:
*  2 bloodlines, would allow you to have 2 more levels of chameleon, making next level a "money" level with the dual aptitude.
*  There are many nice +2 templates (Quor Born, Phrenic w/ magic in the blood, 1/2 Celstial + magic in the blood, etc.)
* For items, there are many cheap items that are pretty awesome, and probably worth more than your +stat items.  (Belt of Battle, that healing Item that everyone uses whose name I forget, etc.)  Check out Bunko's Bargain Basement: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=350.0
*  Yes, initiative is a Dex check - part of what makes it all so awesome

Best,
David

[imoenofcandlekeep]

Okay, after the doubts in the Ask a question boards, we came up with something. The build is supposed to be able to contribute in a High-OP party. The components are: Druid/Planar Shepherd, Rogue/unknown, Illusionist/Master specialist/Shadowcraft Mage, Psion, and an unknown player.
So far, the build (he rolled 2 18s, a 17 and a 16)
INT, WIS: 18 each
CON: 16
DEX: 14
rest: whatever

Factotum 4: skills maxed, no Iaijutsu focus because we don't do OA or have the books. Skillmonkey mainly here. Doubt: is Initiative a DEX check? By so I mean, does the INT bonus from Factotum add here?

Yep.

Cloistered Cleric 1: Knowledge devotion, Trickery devotion, Planning domain (for Extend spell)
Chameleon 5. Main focus in Divine and Arcane. Arcane will be mainly Godwizarding the terrain while Divine buffs the party, adding some Factotum awesomeness.

Feats: Improved Initiative, Obtain Familiar (hummingbird), Able Learner, 4 feats free, ideas?
Flaws are Vulnerable and Inattentive, and the Trait is Aggresive

Font of Inspiration? 

Magic gear: Headband of INT +2, periapt of WIS +2, gloves of DEX +2, belt of battle, and a couple items which give +2 Init and something else, can't recall the names right now. Cheap MiC options. The final initiative bonus comes at something like +21-22

Any item I should recommend? Ideas? Suggestions? The build is 100% open if it doesn't defy the concept of being able to do a bit of everything

I forget, is casting from Chameon like wizard casting?  If it is like sorceror casting, a Drakehelm would be awesome for you.

[Alexei]

Hi!

I love the chameleon class, and have a rather overpowered build which probably closely meets your needs here:  http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1581.msg14985#msg14985

If you are playing besides a planar shepherd and a tweaked out Shadowcraft Mage, etc., then you'll definitely need power.

Some thoughts:
* If you can trade 1 level for the corresponding amount of EXP, you could spend that on some good stuff:
*  2 bloodlines, would allow you to have 2 more levels of chameleon, making next level a "money" level with the dual aptitude.
*  There are many nice +2 templates (Quor Born, Phrenic w/ magic in the blood, 1/2 Celstial + magic in the blood, etc.)
* For items, there are many cheap items that are pretty awesome, and probably worth more than your +stat items.  (Belt of Battle, that healing Item that everyone uses whose name I forget, etc.)  Check out Bunko's Bargain Basement: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=350.0
*  Yes, initiative is a Dex check - part of what makes it all so awesome

Best,
David

Interesting! Thanks for the links, I went through the whole basement and noticed a few interesting things.
About your build itself, I'm a bit cautious to introducing the bit about feat reforming to my party, because I am the DM and my brain might implode (Psion in the party...). Also, the build is a bit too much optimized even for this party  so I'll be picking parts of it instead of the whole package...
I actually allow "trading" earlier levels for exp, but depending on what happens. For the support character who needs a lot of tweaking to keep up, that's a given. Without going into bloodlines -never used them-, we were thinking about picking up White Dragonspawn, for the permanent fly, armor and natural attacks (amulet of mighty fists works on natural weapons?)
Stacking ToB with Factotum is something we looked at, but we already have an initiator in the party so he'd like to be different.

For the 4 feats, 2 Font of Inspiration and Persistent Spell sound nice, and I had thought of Flyby Attack if picking up White Dragonspawn

@Imoen: yep, like a wizard, even needs a spellbook

[Fadier]

Stacking ToB with Factotum is something we looked at, but we already have an initiator in the party so he'd like to be different.

I would still encourage a level dip into Warblade to gain Hunters Sense (Scent), Sudden Leap (swift action move) and Mountain Hammer possibly one of the save replacers (Action Before Thought for reflex or Moment of Perfect Mind for will)

This should not encroach on the Initiators territory but give him a bit more survivability.

I love the chameleon class, and have a rather overpowered build which probably closely meets your needs here:  http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1581.msg14985#msg14985

I have a few slight problems with that build, which are easily bypassed.

You use Psychic Reformation to change Template/Bloodline feats when Psychic Reformation does not work that way.

When this power is manifested, the subject can choose to spend its most recently gained skill points differently (picking new skills and abandoning old ones if it chooses) and to choose a different feat from the one it selected when advancing from its previous level to its current level.

The subject can also choose to forget powers it acquired when advancing to its current level, replacing them with new ones.

The subject can undo decisions of these sorts that were made at lower levels, if both the subject and the manifester agree to pay the necessary XP before this power is manifested (see below). The subject must abide by the standard rules for selecting skills and feats, and so it cannot take feats for which it doesn’t qualify or take crossclass skills as class skills.

For Psychic Reformation to work you need to have a choice in feats (which the Quorbred Template and Bloodlines do not give) but you also have to meet the requirements at the level which you would have garnered the feats.

This is all moot if you swap to the DCFS combo.


Secondly you cannot apply Sanctum Spell to the spells gained from Planar Touchstone as the spell is not cast spontaneously and you do not prepare it.

Once per day, you may cast a spell from the cleric domain you have chosen, as though you had prepared the spell normally.

This is easily gotten by with DMM (Heighten) + Earth Spell to cast 10th level Cleric spells (Heighten to 9th then one more for Earth Spell to 10th). Then take Extra Slot three times and DCFS the other feats away as Extra Slot's only actual prerequsite is Spellcraft 4, the level limitation is in the actual description and (RAW atleast) not a prerequisite.

[Alexei]

Stacking ToB with Factotum is something we looked at, but we already have an initiator in the party so he'd like to be different.

I would still encourage a level dip into Warblade to gain Hunters Sense (Scent), Sudden Leap (swift action move) and Mountain Hammer possibly one of the save replacers (Action Before Thought for reflex or Moment of Perfect Mind for will)

This should not encroach on the Initiators territory but give him a bit more survivability.

Good point, maneuvers that enhance versatility are nice. I'll suggest them. Maybe add the other saves via a ToB item since Concentration will be high.
Quick doubt, what is DCFS? So I can look it up
If possible, I'd like to avoid 9th level spells in the Chameleon, not because they are OP (he can use Time Stop and other scrolls anyway)

Opinions on Dragonspawn?

[Fadier]

DCFS = Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle.

In Fiendish Codex I there is a couple of spells you can cast to swap feats around. First you cast Embrace the Dark Chaos (page 92) to change one of your feats to an Abyssal heritor feat then cast Shun the Dark Chaos (page 95) to swap that feat back to what ever you want.

It costs 500xp per swap but can change free specific feats to anything, even change a feat gained at low level to a high-prerequisite feat.


As for dragonspawn (if you do not know its in the Dragonlance Campaign Setting page 222), considering your kind of game, it should be fine if you rememeber that they created by a dragon overlord (always evil) and so if they have free will (most do not) there will be some dragon out there with strings attached to them. It could make for a good plot point.

[Alexei]

DCFS = Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle.

As for dragonspawn (if you do not know its in the Dragonlance Campaign Setting page 222), considering your kind of game, it should be fine if you rememeber that they created by a dragon overlord (always evil) and so if they have free will (most do not) there will be some dragon out there with strings attached to them. It could make for a good plot point.

Ok, DCFS, nice... better to keep quiet on that one, I see madness down that path...

I remember about that part of dragonspawn, nothing like exploiting characters' brackgrounds for plot hooks, or having their parents burn at the stake for something the BBEG did, framing them so they have a reason to kick his ass

I have also been looking at the idea of showing him a straight Factotum until level 8, then Cl. Cleric 1, Warblade 1 (at 11th, Warblade 2) as a jack-of-all-trades with Knowledge, Trickery and Travel devotions, and from Warblade IHS (or the Diamond mind counters) and White Raven Tactics for teamwork. I might use some ideas there, apart from Belt of Battle abusing + Flyby attack + getting the Tier 1s to cast at +28 Initiative after him 

[imoenofcandlekeep]

Secondly you cannot apply Sanctum Spell to the spells gained from Planar Touchstone as the spell is not cast spontaneously and you do not prepare it.

How do the spells from planar Touchstone: catalogues work, anyway?  I never got a straight answer on that...

[Fadier]

I have also been looking at the idea of showing him a straight Factotum until level 8, then Cl. Cleric 1, Warblade 1 (at 11th, Warblade 2) as a jack-of-all-trades with Knowledge, Trickery and Travel devotions, and from Warblade IHS (or the Diamond mind counters) and White Raven Tactics for teamwork. I might use some ideas there, apart from Belt of Battle abusing + Flyby attack + getting the Tier 1s to cast at +28 Initiative after him 

Considering the other characters I would probably suggest the Chameleon route. The extra Standard Actions is probably the best class feature for Factotums but in the levels between 3 and 8 what do you get? A bad sneak attack, healing a minor amount or tunring undead? A single 4th level wizard/sorc spell?
Where as Chameleon in the same range gives you 3rd level spells from anywhere.

The better option, IMHO, is to go Factotum 3/CCleric 1/ Warblade 1/Chameleon 10 then rebuild to Factotum 8/Chameleon 7.
This drops you from 6th level casting to 5th but gives you your tasty extra actions. If your using the Planar Touchstone trick this should not interfere with it. Then just pick up Warblade/CCleric later or drop Chameleon 5, just remember to put Warblade to the latest level for higher level maneuvers.

Secondly you cannot apply Sanctum Spell to the spells gained from Planar Touchstone as the spell is not cast spontaneously and you do not prepare it.

How do the spells from planar Touchstone: catalogues work, anyway?  I never got a straight answer on that...

The wording is not the best for them. Basically you have all of the domain spells prepared when you recharge the Touchstone (without actually preparing them), they stick around until you use one of them. They then become available again the next day for your use as before. Then when you use it next it resets for the last time.

Then you have to recharge it again. Either by writing your dairy, doing meanial work or being a smartass locating an error.

[imoenofcandlekeep]

I have also been looking at the idea of showing him a straight Factotum until level 8, then Cl. Cleric 1, Warblade 1 (at 11th, Warblade 2) as a jack-of-all-trades with Knowledge, Trickery and Travel devotions, and from Warblade IHS (or the Diamond mind counters) and White Raven Tactics for teamwork. I might use some ideas there, apart from Belt of Battle abusing + Flyby attack + getting the Tier 1s to cast at +28 Initiative after him 

Considering the other characters I would probably suggest the Chameleon route. The extra Standard Actions is probably the best class feature for Factotums but in the levels between 3 and 8 what do you get? A bad sneak attack, healing a minor amount or tunring undead? A single 4th level wizard/sorc spell?
Where as Chameleon in the same range gives you 3rd level spells from anywhere.

The better option, IMHO, is to go Factotum 3/CCleric 1/ Warblade 1/Chameleon 10 then rebuild to Factotum 8/Chameleon 7.
This drops you from 6th level casting to 5th but gives you your tasty extra actions. If your using the Planar Touchstone trick this should not interfere with it. Then just pick up Warblade/CCleric later or drop Chameleon 5, just remember to put Warblade to the latest level for higher level maneuvers.

Secondly you cannot apply Sanctum Spell to the spells gained from Planar Touchstone as the spell is not cast spontaneously and you do not prepare it.

How do the spells from planar Touchstone: catalogues work, anyway?  I never got a straight answer on that...

The wording is not the best for them. Basically you have all of the domain spells prepared when you recharge the Touchstone (without actually preparing them), they stick around until you use one of them. They then become available again the next day for your use as before. Then when you use it next it resets for the last time.

Then you have to recharge it again. Either by writing your dairy, doing meanial work or being a smartass locating an error.

So you gain virtual domain slots, even if you have no casting?  Weird.

[DavidWL]

I have a few slight problems with that build, which are easily bypassed.
...
This is all moot if you swap to the DCFS combo.
...
This is easily gotten by with DMM (Heighten) + Earth Spell
....

Thank you so much for the feedback.  I appreciate it greatly!

Best,
David