Could really use some help as a newbie Wizard

[Daven]

Hello all, Sorry in advanced for such a long post!

So, my buddies and I started a new campaign a little while ago to test out pathfinder and see how it compares to 3.5 and 4.0. I decided I wanted to try out a Wizard this time around and I’m not sure I’m exactly getting this right. I could definitely use a bit of help with my guy and was wondering if anyone had some tips for me.

We started the campaign at level 0 and we’re now at level 4, about to hit level 5. Our DM’s leaving in a couple months, so he’s trying to level us a bit faster than usual. I’d say we’ll probably hit somewhere in the low teens by the time we’re done. Level 13, 14, maybe 15. Definitely not close to level 20 though.

That kinda has me a bit worried about my strength as a wizard, because I know they are pretty terrible at low levels and shine at the higher levels. I figure once I get around level 9-10 I’ll start being able to pull some weight, but I feel pretty useless right now at level 4. Level 5 should help a bit once I’m able to start casting level 3 spells, but I won’t have many.

I’m basically trying to use Treantmonk’s God Wizard as kind of a guide for my character. I’ve always kind of been the glass cannon fireball-type casters and was looking for something different this time. So a summoning/crowd control caster sounded pretty interesting. I’m liking it a lot so far, but now that I’m more of a utility caster, I’m having trouble with spell choices and feats. Plus, our Paladin was allowed to tweak his character a little bit, so our DM said if anyone else wanted to make some alterations we could do it now.

Also, because we’re new to pathfinder and don’t want to complicate things too much, the DM said we can only use things from the Core Player’s Handbook. Nothing else. So that kind of gimped me a little bit. Like, I wanted to take Rapid Summoning instead of a Familiar, but the DM wouldn’t let me do that. And I still haven’t decided on a familiar yet! >.< Haha. I don’t know if I should go with a Rat for bonus Fort or a Toad for a little extra HP? Any other ideas?

That also means that I was pretty much just going to go with Wizard as my class for every level. There weren’t any other core classes that blended well with this wizard and none of the core prestige classes looked good either.

Anyways, here’s my guy so far: 

Level 4 Neutral Evil Elf, Conjuration Wizard,  HP = 28,  Str: 8, Dex: 17, Con: 12, Int: 20, Wis: 12, Cha: 10
AC: 13,   Fort: 2, Ref: 4, Will: 5

I’ve specialized in the Conjuration School. The two anti-schools I went with were Abjuration and Divination. I had a hard time deciding these schools, but I chose these because, I really didn’t want to get rid of Illusion or Transmutation. I still wanted some blasting spells (force of habit >.<) so I didn’t want to get rid of Evocation. I like using a lot of the Enchantment spells, so I wanted that. So it was basically down to Necromancy, Abjuration, and Divination. Abj and Div didn’t sound that great to me, so I just dumped them. Not sure if I picked the right ones or not. :/ Like do I NEED the spell Read Magic memorized every day if I want to use any scroll? Or transfer a spell from someone else’s spell book to my own? I haven’t gotten a scroll or found another spell book yet, but I should be getting some soon, so that was my first thought about maybe I picked the wrong schools. Haha. Maybe switch Div for Necro?

Now, I’m not sure if I’m doing my spells per day right either. Since I’m specialized I get an extra Conj spell per day too right? So at level 4, with an intelligence of 20, I should get:

Level 0 – 4 Spells: 4 for the level
Level 1 – 6 Spells: 3 for the level, 2 for Int bonus, and 1 for Conj
Level 2 – 4 Spells: 2 for the level, 1 for Int bonus, and 1 for Conj

Does that sound right?

I won’t write down all the spells in my book, but here are the ones I’ve memorized for the day:

0 level: Daze, Light, Flare, and Prestidigitation
1 level: Mage Armor, Sleep, Grease x2, and Color Spray x2
2 level: Web, Flaming Sphere, Mirror Image, and Invisibility

Are there completely obvious spells at those levels that I’m overlooking? At this level it didn’t seem like any of the spells are that great and our party doesn’t really have much for damage. A tank Pally, Cleric healer, Ranger damage, Sorcerer damage, and my wizard damage/cc. So I wanted to try to throw in some CC as well as a little damage too. I usually try to start battles out with mage armor, and a grease/web. Then depending on what happens after that I go more cc or more damage. I figure once I hit level 5 I can start summoning with the Summon Monster III spell, since it seems the consensus on SM I & II are that they kind of suck. Haha.

Finally I’m not exactly sure what feats I should be looking at. I took Toughness at level 1, and Spell Focus Conjuration at level 3. I was looking at getting improved initiative and augmented summoning later, but I don’t really have many choices. Maybe a Spell Penetration? And I’ve never used metamagic before so I don’t really know how effective they can be, taking up higher level spell slots and all. :/

Oh, and all I have so far for items is pretty much just my spell book and components pouch, some rations and then a basic Longsword in case I get into melee. I’ve been trying to save up for some decent items like a ring of sustenance or headband of Vast Int or Belt of incredible dex for a little extra AC. I haven’t looked at items too much yet because we’re so low on gold, but I’ll check them out sometime soon.

So yea, I don’t really have any specific questions exactly, just kind of a general “am I doing something clearly wrong?!” kind of thing. Haha! We’re all still pretty new, so any help would be great! I know I’m pretty weak right now, but I’m hoping I’ll get a lot stronger here soon! ^_^ If you’ve got any advice, tips, critiques, etc. let me know! I definitely want my guy to be as awesome as possible!!! Thanks!

[Solo]

Advice: Grab Shrink Item and use it to cause headaches asap.

[Daven]

Haha! thanks! 

[Dawnmor]

I also suggest you grab Empower spell and take Scorching ray! or magic missile!!!, those are your basic spells regardless of level.  Grab Fell Drain too.  Tag it onto Magic missile.  Then fire each missile at a different target, that way if your attacked by a bunch of fighter types, you can drain all 5 targets of there strength by 4 pts because of Fell Drain.

Also sense your only going into level 15 maybe as you stated, I suggest you look into Ultimate Magus from Complete Mage.

[Tshern]

Toughness was a rather subpar choice for a Wizard and Conjuration spells tend to lack saving throws, so Spell focus (Conjuration) is not that hot either. Improved initiative is an excellent choice for any Wizard.

You mentioned that only the PHB is available to you. This begs the question, how do you plan on handling gear? Magic items, for example, are located in the DMG rather than PHB.

As for metamagic, Quicken spell is something you ought to look at later on. It is not a pressing issue at that level, but consider it as your level 12 feat. Also, if you are allowed magic items, getting a Rod of Extend is a good investment. The cheapest one can double the duration of any spell up to level 3 (three times a day only) for the cheap price of 3000 gp.

You are off to a good start there, battlefield control is the way to go as a Conjurer. One thing baffles me though, where is Glitterdust? That is a spell you should not neglect. Color spray is a fantastic choice, good to see you have it. Personally I tend to keep at least one Detect magic available as well, but your mileage may vary...

I also suggest you grab Empower spell and take Scorching ray! or magic missile!!!, those are your basic spells regardless of level.  Grab Fell Drain too.  Tag it onto Magic missile.  Then fire each missile at a different target, that way if your attacked by a bunch of fighter types, you can drain all 5 targets of there strength by 4 pts because of Fell Drain.

Also sense your only going into level 15 maybe as you stated, I suggest you look into Ultimate Magus from Complete Mage.

What good will that PrC do? Especially for a new player, I would definitely recommend sticking to Wizard rather than using the few Ultimate Magus tricks that have the potential to rise above vanilla Wizards. Also, you cannot find the Ultimate Magus nor Fell Drain in the PHB.

[Daven]

I also suggest you grab Empower spell and take Scorching ray! or magic missile!!!, those are your basic spells regardless of level.  Grab Fell Drain too.  Tag it onto Magic missile.  Then fire each missile at a different target, that way if your attacked by a bunch of fighter types, you can drain all 5 targets of there strength by 4 pts because of Fell Drain.

Also sense your only going into level 15 maybe as you stated, I suggest you look into Ultimate Magus from Complete Mage.

Haha!! That would be so awesome!    I've never seen that magic missile/fell drain combination before! I'll have to remember that! Although, sadly it's not in the Core Rulebook, so I couldn't do it. I also did look into Ultimate Magus, but it's from Complete Mage. There were quite a few other things I wanted from Complete Mage, but the DM knows it's a pretty overpowered book.

I was also looking into possibly doing something like the Malconvoker, but he put an end to that pretty quickly. Haha! He said next time we play we can start trying some of those unique and overpowered builds if we wanted. For now we need to just stick with the Core Rulebook.

[Tshern]

I also suggest you grab Empower spell and take Scorching ray! or magic missile!!!, those are your basic spells regardless of level.  Grab Fell Drain too.  Tag it onto Magic missile.  Then fire each missile at a different target, that way if your attacked by a bunch of fighter types, you can drain all 5 targets of there strength by 4 pts because of Fell Drain.

Also sense your only going into level 15 maybe as you stated, I suggest you look into Ultimate Magus from Complete Mage.

Haha!! That would be so awesome!    I've never seen that magic missile/fell drain combination before! I'll have to remember that! Although, sadly it's not in the Core Rulebook, so I couldn't do it. I also did look into Ultimate Magus, but it's from Complete Mage. There were quite a few other things I wanted from Complete Mage, but the DM knows it's a pretty overpowered book.

Well, the Player's Handbook is actually the most overpowered book in the entire game.

[Jackinthegreen]

Well, the Player's Handbook is actually the most overpowered book in the entire game.

Good luck convincing people of that though.

[Tshern]

Well, the Player's Handbook is actually the most overpowered book in the entire game.

Good luck convincing people of that though.

Did that to a group I used to play with. I was quite surprised they got the hint even before we started the game when I explained how to use spells effectively and whatnot. A smart lot.

[Daven]

Toughness was a rather subpar choice for a Wizard and Conjuration spells tend to lack saving throws, so Spell focus (Conjuration) is not that hot either. Improved initiative is an excellent choice for any Wizard.

You mentioned that only the PHB is available to you. This begs the question, how do you plan on handling gear? Magic items, for example, are located in the DMG rather than PHB.

As for metamagic, Quicken spell is something you ought to look at later on. It is not a pressing issue at that level, but consider it as your level 12 feat. Also, if you are allowed magic items, getting a Rod of Extend is a good investment. The cheapest one can double the duration of any spell up to level 3 (three times a day only) for the cheap price of 3000 gp.

You are off to a good start there, battlefield control is the way to go as a Conjurer. One thing baffles me though, where is Glitterdust? That is a spell you should not neglect. Color spray is a fantastic choice, good to see you have it. Personally I tend to keep at least one Detect magic available as well, but your mileage may vary...

Thanks for the reply!! Yea I always hate taking Toughness! But it just seems to help so much at those lower levels!   And I was thinking about taking the Imp Initiative here at level 5. I figured since I didn't really have many CC spells at those low levels, a bit of life would be more helpful than going first. Now that I've got a few CC spells, it's definitely very helpful going first!

Also, the Spell Focus (Conjuration) was pretty much only so that I could get the Augment Summon feat later. I figured I was going to have to take that Spell Focus at some point and just picked it at level 3 because I was rushed and needed to pick something. Haha. Metamagics still kind of confuse me though. They all look like really powerful feats, but having to increase the spells level slots has always turned me off. I did like the Enlarge, Extend, and Quicken feats though! I was looking at those for later. But what would be some good spells for quicken? A quick Web in case we get surprised? But that'd be a level 6 slot! Quick Color Spray seems like it'd be nice, but at a level 5 slot? I'll keep looking into it though. I like the idea of getting a Metamagic Rod though! I'll look into getting one!

And yea, I definitely have Glitterdust in my spell book, I just didn't memorize it for today! Haha! I've already used it, and it worked perfectly , but the next couple game days we'll be spending in the middle of this crowded city trying to get a revolt going. So, I figured I didn't really NEED it right now. I could probably get rid of Mirror Image for it instead. And both our Cleric and Sorcerer had Detect Magic and use it all the time, which is kind of another reason I didn't mind getting rid of Divination. So if I find myself alone again I'm kind of SOL, but that's alright.

As for magic items, I haven't looked too hard yet at all the items. I was pretty much just going off of the list Treantmonk had on his God Wizard Guide. Here's most of the items I'm currently looking at getting:

First I was going to try to get a Ring of Sustenance so I can prepare spells easier and don't need to rest so much. Then I was going to try to get the Headband of Vast Int, so I could jump to 22 Int as soon as I could. Next would be something like the Belt of Incredible Dexterity, just for the extra AC, Initiative, etc.

After those, it was kind of just, whatever kinds of Resistance items I could get and AC increasing items. Like: Cloak of Resistance, Amulet of Natural Armor, Ring of Protection, Maybe a Handy Haversack and Efficient Quiver. And then to finish it off I was probably gonna look at getting some Scrolls (Although, don't I have to use Read Magic in order to use them?), some Rods and Wands, and then maybe a few Pearls of Power. Just in case I need to get that one spell back when needed! haha. And just to double check, those Pearls of Power are just a one time use item right? Kind of like just having a "scroll of any spell you've memorized?"

But yea, most of the items I wanted were all in the Core Rulebook. He did say that if we wanted to though, we could look at the Magic Items list in the DMG and he might let us get some things from there. Are there any awesome items you were thinking about in the DMG that I could look into? I still don't really have any ideas for boots, gloves, or even weapons for that matter. haha!

[OutlawPhilosopher]

I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to ban Divination, so maybe switch that?

[Tshern]

Thanks for the reply!! Yea I always hate taking Toughness! But it just seems to help so much at those lower levels!   And I was thinking about taking the Imp Initiative here at level 5. I figured since I didn't really have many CC spells at those low levels, a bit of life would be more helpful than going first. Now that I've got a few CC spells, it's definitely very helpful going first!

First level is kind of weird, any character can die from one unlucky roll. Very frustrating. Are you getting feats at every odd level? Pathfinder isn't exactly my cup of tea, so I would not know.

Also, the Spell Focus (Conjuration) was pretty much only so that I could get the Augment Summon feat later. I figured I was going to have to take that Spell Focus at some point and just picked it at level 3 because I was rushed and needed to pick something.

That is a solid plan. It is worth noting that Spell focus (Conjuration) does affect Glitterdust, which is amazing.

Haha. Metamagics still kind of confuse me though. They all look like really powerful feats, but having to increase the spells level slots has always turned me off. I did like the Enlarge, Extend, and Quicken feats though!

I would steer away from Enlarge spell, it is not very good. Furthermore, Extend spell is easily replicated with metamagic rods, because for that particular metamagic feat they are rather cheap.

I was looking at those for later. But what would be some good spells for quicken? A quick Web in case we get surprised? But that'd be a level 6 slot! Quick Color Spray seems like it'd be nice, but at a level 5 slot? I'll keep looking into it though. I like the idea of getting a Metamagic Rod though! I'll look into getting one!

Quickening is a high level strategy, that is for sure. Later on it can be very valuable if you want to buff your fellow players. For example Haste is a buff that doesn't really get old and the melee characters absolutely love it. You could, for example, buff your party's main beatstick with Polymorph and then use a swift action to cast Quickened Haste and send him to do some damage.

And yea, I definitely have Glitterdust in my spell book, I just didn't memorize it for today! Haha! I've already used it, and it worked perfectly , but the next couple game days we'll be spending in the middle of this crowded city trying to get a revolt going. So, I figured I didn't really NEED it right now. I could probably get rid of Mirror Image for it instead. And both our Cleric and Sorcerer had Detect Magic and use it all the time, which is kind of another reason I didn't mind getting rid of Divination. So if I find myself alone again I'm kind of SOL, but that's alright.

As OutlawPhilosopher pointed out, at least in 3.5e, you cannot ban Divination. But if your other casters have Detect magic, you don't really need it.

First I was going to try to get a Ring of Sustenance so I can prepare spells easier and don't need to rest so much. Then I was going to try to get the Headband of Vast Int, so I could jump to 22 Int as soon as I could. Next would be something like the Belt of Incredible Dexterity, just for the extra AC, Initiative, etc.

If you get some extra time, consider making scrolls on your own. They can be very nice if you run into trouble.

After those, it was kind of just, whatever kinds of Resistance items I could get and AC increasing items. Like: Cloak of Resistance, Amulet of Natural Armor, Ring of Protection, Maybe a Handy Haversack and Efficient Quiver. And then to finish it off I was probably gonna look at getting some Scrolls (Although, don't I have to use Read Magic in order to use them?), some Rods and Wands, and then maybe a few Pearls of Power. Just in case I need to get that one spell back when needed! haha. And just to double check, those Pearls of Power are just a one time use item right? Kind of like just having a "scroll of any spell you've memorized?"

Handy Haversack is a good deal, always worth getting, same goes for Cloak of Resistance. Remember to prioritise Ring of Protection over Amulet of Natural Armor, because deflection bonus is better. Pearls of Power can only store a single spell at any one time, but you can use them again and again even if it is only once per day.

But yea, most of the items I wanted were all in the Core Rulebook. He did say that if we wanted to though, we could look at the Magic Items list in the DMG and he might let us get some things from there. Are there any awesome items you were thinking about in the DMG that I could look into? I still don't really have any ideas for boots, gloves, or even weapons for that matter. haha!

In 3.5e, all the magic items are in the DMG. Not sure how Pathfinder deals with those.

[Daven]

First level is kind of weird, any character can die from one unlucky roll. Very frustrating. Are you getting feats at every odd level? Pathfinder isn't exactly my cup of tea, so I would not know.

Yea, that's correct. In pathfinder you get feats at every odd level. So, with my bonus Wizard feat at level 5, I'll get to choose 2 next level. One was going to be Imp. Init. and I wasn't sure what the other one I was gonna take was yet.

That is a solid plan. It is worth noting that Spell focus (Conjuration) does affect Glitterdust, which is amazing.

My thoughts exactly!! Haha!

I would steer away from Enlarge spell, it is not very good. Furthermore, Extend spell is easily replicated with metamagic rods, because for that particular metamagic feat they are rather cheap.

Alright, good to know!

Quickening is a high level strategy, that is for sure. Later on it can be very valuable if you want to buff your fellow players. For example Haste is a buff that doesn't really get old and the melee characters absolutely love it. You could, for example, buff your party's main beatstick with Polymorph and then use a swift action to cast Quickened Haste and send him to do some damage.

Ohhhhh! Buffing/Debuffing! Didn't even think of those! Quick Haste or Slow would be great! Wow thanks! Although, that still kind of sucks that they'd take up a level 7 slot! Haha! But, oh well. 

As OutlawPhilosopher pointed out, at least in 3.5e, you cannot ban Divination. But if your other casters have Detect magic, you don't really need it.

Ah crap. I didn't even know it wasn't bannable in 3.5. Haha! I didn't read anything about not being able to ban it in Pathfinder, but nothing's said that changed, so it's probably the same. Shoot! Well I guess it's Abjuration and Necromancy I'll be getting rid of than! 

Handy Haversack is a good deal, always worth getting, same goes for Cloak of Resistance. Remember to prioritise Ring of Protection over Amulet of Natural Armor, because deflection bonus is better. Pearls of Power can only store a single spell at any one time, but you can use them again and again even if it is only once per day.

Oh SWEET!!! I thought the Pearls just got used up! Nice!! Yea, then I'm definitely going to get a couple of those! haha thanks! And I didn't even notice the deflection bonus! I thought both were just a straight increase in AC. Nice! Although, for the deflection bonus, isn't that just against touch attacks? So not against ranged? Or am I reading that wrong?

In 3.5e, all the magic items are in the DMG. Not sure how Pathfinder deals with those.

Yea, the Pathfinder Core book has pretty much most of the magic items in it. A little bit different than 3.5. Haha! It definitely is taking some getting used to. >.< But I'm liking it so far!

[Tshern]

Deflection bonus works against everything, but unlike, say, shield bonus, it is effective against touch attacks. Also, it remains in place even if you are flat-footed. One of the best bonus types for AC.

[Daven]

Deflection bonus works against everything, but unlike, say, shield bonus, it is effective against touch attacks. Also, it remains in place even if you are flat-footed. One of the best bonus types for AC.

Oh wow sweet!! Thanks so much for the information! You're awesome!   Now I can't wait to get back to plotting world domination!!! MUAHAHAHAH!

[Dawnmor]

Your DM needs to stop having a stick up his arse and letcha play what you want regardless of resource.  I have a DM, that allows everything even 3rd party stuff, problem with that is that we get screwed over by our own creativity , you gotta pull out all stops just to survive his games, I dont think we ever had a game where our materials were limited, so I kinda feel sorry for you.

But as the same DM says that he can create a kick butt character just from using the feats out of the PHB alone, so its possible to create a Core only wizard.

I know I just hate it lol.

[Daven]

Your DM needs to stop having a stick up his arse and letcha play what you want regardless of resource.  I have a DM, that allows everything even 3rd party stuff, problem with that is that we get screwed over by our own creativity , you gotta pull out all stops just to survive his games, I dont think we ever had a game where our materials were limited, so I kinda feel sorry for you.

But as the same DM says that he can create a kick butt character just from using the feats out of the PHB alone, so its possible to create a Core only wizard.

I know I just hate it lol.

Oh we're usually like that too. Just coming up with fun/random ideas for characters. This was just our first time trying out pathfinder and we haven't played a campaign in a couple years, so he just didnt want to have to audit everything we do and have us creating crazy characters just yet. Haha! Next campaign he said he doesn't care, but for now stick with core.

Which is also why I needed some help. I'm so used to those crazy fun characters using all the "Complete" books. Plus I haven't played a caster in forever, so I couldn't remember a lot of the rules and whatnot. I tried looking up a bunch of guides, but most just gave you a general jist of things and only help so much.

And I thought I was doing something wrong too cause I thought I saw one guide where a guy had a conjugation wizard, level 5 with like 5 level 0 spells, 7 level 1 spells, 5 level 2 spells, and 4 level 3 spells. So it was like he had 1 extra spell at each level than I did and I couldn't figure out how he got the extra spells! I still don't know, but other guides were more like mine, so I figured maybe he did something wrong. :-/  So, I'm still just trying to figure things out.

[Dawnmor]

Out of pure curiousity what is the party make up of your group ?

[Daven]

Out of pure curiousity what is the party make up of your group ?

It's actually a pretty great party so far! Haha. We've got a human paladin tank that we're slowly trying to get turned into a blackguard! But he's sure feisty!! We'll get him soon though!! Haha!

Then we've got a tiefling cleric, which we weren't supposed to have tieflings, but shes new and really wanted to be one. So we all agreed it was ok. Shes mostly our healer of course.

We have a human ranger that's following Treantmonk's Ranger Guide. So right now at level 4 he's a powerhouse! Haha! I'm hoping he scales off here soon cause he's making the rest of us look bad! >.<

Then we have a half elf sorcerer. She's also pretty new and loves games like dragonage. So she's trying to create the "Super strong melee fighter, that can cast powerful spells, while shooting at them with a bow" character. Haha! Hasn't quite figured out there are usually different roles for that, but she's learning. It's fun.

And then there's me, the Elven Wizard. I'm trying to do a balance of damage and crowd control to help out the newer players. I'm liking it a lot so far. Though I'm definitely looking forward to when I start getting my powerful spells and summons!! Haha!

[Lycanthromancer]

I find Quicken mostly to be good for setting up combos. A Quickened Enervation + Empowered Enervation is NASTY. Note that, yes, most of it is higher level stuff until and unless you get metamagic reducers.