Author Topic: Vote(d) 2012 ... can't mediate the Ho Ho's  (Read 128532 times)

Offline Libertad

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... Rest In Peace , Ding-Dongs
« Reply #720 on: November 22, 2012, 03:59:49 PM »
Both parties kicked out most of their moderates this cycle though.

The Democrats are still pretty moderate.  The haven't lobbied hard for gun control or jailing criminal Wall Street types (like Goldman Sachs), for example.

Hell, the North Carolina Democrats didn't use civil liberties or religious bigotry as examples to fight Amendment One (which would ban gay marriage in the State), they simply focused on the economic consequences instead (less businesses today wish to set up shop in an anti-gay state).

They're so scared of being labeled Socialists or Communists that they acquiesce to right-wing groups or tip-toe around them.  The Republicans turned "liberal" into a bad word, and the Democrats went along with it.

Relevant YouTube video.

And another.

I'm a liberal, and I'm proud of it.  I favor legalized abortion for rape victims and little girls; I think that there's no practical reason for the average citizen to own a grenade launcher; I wouldn't shed a single tear if the Confederate Flag becomes as demonized as the burning cross in society; I think that anti-gay bullying should be a hate crime; I'm a male feminist and see no problem with guys adopting the term; and I have no problem with government-funded healthcare as long as it's efficient.  If this makes me an anti-American Communist, then sign me up for the Russian Red Army.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 06:10:07 PM by Libertad »

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... Rest In Peace , Ding-Dongs
« Reply #721 on: November 22, 2012, 05:55:19 PM »
I'm a liberal, and I'm proud of it.  I favor legalized abortion for rape victims and little girls; I think that there's no practical reason for the average citizen to own a grenade launcher; I wouldn't shed a single tear if the Confederate Flag becomes as demonized as the burning cross in society; I think that anti-gay bullying should be a hate crime; I'm a male feminist and see no problem with guys adopting the term; and I have no problem with government-funded healthcare as long as it's efficient.  If this makes me an anti-American Communist, then sign me up for the Russian Red Army.
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Offline Libertad

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... Rest In Peace , Ding-Dongs
« Reply #722 on: November 22, 2012, 06:08:26 PM »
Solidarity Forever, Comrade!

This is the first Respect I got for a political statement.  I should post in this thread more, methinks. :plotting

The GOP wants class warfare, let's bring it to them!
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 06:11:45 PM by Libertad »

Offline veekie

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... Rest In Peace , Ding-Dongs
« Reply #723 on: November 22, 2012, 09:24:21 PM »
Both parties kicked out most of their moderates this cycle though.
The Far Left in America is basically Moderate anywhere else in the world.
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Offline Libertad

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... Rest In Peace , Ding-Dongs
« Reply #724 on: November 22, 2012, 10:03:46 PM »
Both parties kicked out most of their moderates this cycle though.
The Far Left in America is basically Moderate anywhere else in the world.

Ah yes, I hear that quite often.  But it is inaccurate to say that the US is simply more right-wing than say, Europe; in fact, the Left-Right spectrum as used in the US is different than Europe.

In Europe, the Left is associated with less government, anti-establishment groups, and individualism.  Anarchists are considered a far-left ideology in Europe.  The Right is associated with tradition, the establishment, and collectivism.  Fascism is considered a far-right ideology in Europe.

Now, the US spectrum is iffy.  The Left is associated with egalitarianism, secularism, opposition to big business, and progressivism.  The Right is associated with religious fundamentalism, support of big business and free market capitalism, emphasis on "traditional values," and an Ayn Rand-esque "everybody's out for themselves" mantra.

So in Europe, the far-right (nationalists and fascists) is anti-capitalist and anti-big business, while in the US it staunchly supports deregulation and cutting vital government services.  On the European scale, neither the Democrats nor Republicans are left-wing because they want more government control in certain issues.

In the latter case, the American Far Right has a long history with States' Rights and white supremacist circles, who historically supported weakening the federal government so that they can get away with oppressing non-Caucasians.  In many ways, they're not small government so much as they approve of near-autonomy for state and local governments to do whatever they please.  This would effectively allow small towns and rural states full of right-wing nutjobs to ignore the Constitution and act tyrannical towards people they hate.

So basically one ideology which is right-wing in the US can be liberal in Europe.  Take Libertarians: they're fond of Ayn Rand, capitalism, and associate with the GOP as the "lesser of two evils," and they dislike liberals for supporting social security, healthcare, welfare, and regulation.  In Europe, they'd be considered far-left for their distrust of government in almost everything.

Strangely, Communist regimes are considered left-wing in both America and Europe, even though many of them were authoritarian or relatively conservative on social issues.

Politics is weird like that.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 02:31:57 AM by Libertad »

Offline dman11235

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... Rest In Peace , Ding-Dongs
« Reply #725 on: November 23, 2012, 02:30:02 AM »
It's almost like we can't just pin down people on one spectrum of political affiliation....
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Offline Libertad

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... Rest In Peace , Ding-Dongs
« Reply #726 on: November 23, 2012, 02:36:22 AM »
It's almost like we can't just pin down people on one spectrum of political affiliation....

It's too entrenched in our political discourse, but the left-right spectrum is very out of date and needs to be replaced.

I still use the terms "left-wing" as a matter of habit, because it gets the point across quickly when talking about things.  Like instead of referring to Rush Limbaugh as a sexist, racist war hawk obsessed with the past and wants to destroy vital government services, I can refer him as "on the Far Right" and transmit all of these descriptors immediately when speaking with Americans.  I am trying to use the terms "liberal" and "conservative" more often, except that most Americans view themselves as moderate and shy away from these labels (especially the liberals), so I can't always do that.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 02:38:29 AM by Libertad »

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... Rest In Peace , Ding-Dongs
« Reply #727 on: November 23, 2012, 03:56:40 PM »
I have no idea where on a "real" political spectrum
to put my elderly 70+ year old relatives.  They wanna
talk about the world exactly as fox news tells them.
They love the attitude and agitating of the Tea Party.
flip
      flop
They want their Social (-ist) Security.
They want their Medicare.
They're pro public schools.
They want the military home.
They don't want tax breaks to send jobs overseas.
etc ...

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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... can't mediate the Ho Ho's
« Reply #728 on: November 23, 2012, 03:58:38 PM »
Populist. There really should be at least one more axis on our political radar, like up/down.
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Offline veekie

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... can't mediate the Ho Ho's
« Reply #729 on: November 23, 2012, 05:31:31 PM »
But how would you get people to think like you want them to if they realize they have opinions!
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Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... can't mediate the Ho Ho's
« Reply #730 on: November 23, 2012, 07:54:29 PM »
At the rate they're going it'd soon be a Single Party System.

I thought we nearly did... It's called 'Money'  :(
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... can't mediate the Ho Ho's
« Reply #731 on: November 23, 2012, 07:56:42 PM »
Populist. There really should be at least one more axis on our political radar, like up/down.
In fact, I think we should use the same nomenclature that's used for quarks, just to make it interesting.  :smirk
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Offline littha

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... can't mediate the Ho Ho's
« Reply #732 on: November 24, 2012, 01:05:08 AM »
Populist. There really should be at least one more axis on our political radar, like up/down.
In fact, I think we should use the same nomenclature that's used for quarks, just to make it interesting.  :smirk

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Offline veekie

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... can't mediate the Ho Ho's
« Reply #733 on: November 24, 2012, 02:40:35 AM »
That'd be the charismatic leader type.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... can't mediate the Ho Ho's
« Reply #734 on: November 24, 2012, 02:03:58 PM »
Charter membership in the:  " Charm Strange Quark Party " ... starts now.
 :tongue
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Offline SolEiji

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... can't mediate the Ho Ho's
« Reply #735 on: November 24, 2012, 06:13:26 PM »
Populist. There really should be at least one more axis on our political radar, like up/down.

There is, sorta.  I've seen the charts which have an alignment-esque system of conservative-liberal and authoritarian-anarchistic on the other.  I end up moderate anarchistic centrist mostly.  That said, I totally want a quantum based system now.  X3  Electrons vs Protons in the upcoming election, but will the 3rd party neutrons steal away votes from the protons?  Stay tuned...
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Offline InnaBinder

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... can't mediate the Ho Ho's
« Reply #736 on: November 24, 2012, 06:54:56 PM »
Populist. There really should be at least one more axis on our political radar, like up/down.

There is, sorta. I've seen the charts which have an alignment-esque system of conservative-liberal and authoritarian-anarchistic on the other.  I end up moderate anarchistic centrist mostly.  That said, I totally want a quantum based system now.  X3  Electrons vs Protons in the upcoming election, but will the 3rd party neutrons steal away votes from the protons?  Stay tuned...
Anyone have a link to those charts?
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Offline bhu

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... can't mediate the Ho Ho's
« Reply #737 on: November 24, 2012, 07:15:23 PM »

Offline FlaminCows

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... can't mediate the Ho Ho's
« Reply #738 on: November 24, 2012, 07:18:02 PM »
That is a terribly biased test. I wouldn't put any stock in it.

Offline SolEiji

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Re: Vote(d) 2012 ... can't mediate the Ho Ho's
« Reply #739 on: November 24, 2012, 07:25:54 PM »
That test may be biased, but I've seen that chart elsewhere.  I find the chart's concept to be accurate, even if this test isn't.
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