Fun Finds v4.0

[zook1shoe]

Does it deal nonlethal? 

[nijineko]

One of the favored weapons of the goddess Akadi is a whirlwind  . I'm not sure how that works by RAW...maybe since she's the queen of elemental air, it's the whirlwind attack of air elementals? Anyways, use the spiritual weapon spell and create FORCE WHIRLWINDS  .

I wonder if there are other dieties with weird favored weapons...

Chauntea has a sheaf of grain. Yeah. Beating around the bush much?

perhaps sowing oats....

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Social Recovery skill trick

(click to show/hide)

You can talk your way out of a problem you talked yourself into.
Prerequisite: Bluff 8 ranks, Diplomacy 5 ranks.
Benefit: If your Diplomacy check to influence an NPC’s attitude fails, you can spend another full round talking to the NPC, then make a Bluff check with a –10 penalty. Use the result of this check in place of the Diplomacy check result, except that it can’t improve the NPC’s attitude by more than one step. Once you use this skill trick (successfully or not), you cannot use it against the same target again for 24 hours.

plus

Glibness (+30 to Bluff checks) makes it trivially easily to totally break the game using diplomacy...

Yes, I know that cat was out of the bag a long time ago, but it typically required a pretty significant investment in resources. With this, any 7th level bard could do it with nothing more than a single spell known and a few skill points...

Social Recovery only improves the NPC's attitude by a maximum of 1 step, so no making fanatics out of your enemies. Also, Glibness only applies to "Bluff checks made to convince another of the truth of your words", and it explicitly doesn't apply to any other uses of the skill.

Damn you Garryl, and your reading comprehension skills, for ruining all my fun. 

Who's to say that Diplomacy does NOT involve "convince another of the truth of your words".
It might be --- though isn't mandatory --- that the truth of your words is a normal Diplomacy check.

Kind of a reroll effect for a failed Diplo check.


edit - y'know the Divine Mind gets mileage out of this / non-Cha focused build.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

I'm a bit behind on this, but Whispercast turns a spell into a purely mental action... then you can cast it with your Schism'd mind.

If the Schism'd mind is capable of whispering, since whispercast says that you have to have the ability to whisper (not that you have to whisper, but have the ability to) Nevermind, not pertinent; each mind is still 'you'. You're just schizophrenic.

However, on reading schism, I conclude that the Combining Effects, and the Psionic-Magic Transparency explanation below that, rules limit the spell levels that you can use. Perhaps I'm missing something.

I think that you casting Whispercast, then your Schism casting the actual spell, would let you schism-cast any spell allowable by Whispercast alone? Schism reduces ML, but I can't find anything in transparency that converts ML penalties/bonuses to CL, and I'm glad for that. (Bad, Practiced Manifester, bad!)

Oh that's just not fair.  Psi never gets the good tricks.
Schism was one of those Psi-Is-Borkt powers , but
it's way (!!) better for this kind of caster.

[Kasz]

One of the favored weapons of the goddess Akadi is a whirlwind  . I'm not sure how that works by RAW...maybe since she's the queen of elemental air, it's the whirlwind attack of air elementals? Anyways, use the spiritual weapon spell and create FORCE WHIRLWINDS  .

I wonder if there are other dieties with weird favored weapons...

I've always liked Ulutiu, for Harpoon access... a force harpoon sounds like a fun way to impale incorporeal creatures and limit their movements.

A favoured soul of Akadi would gain proficiency (whirlwind) and weapon focus (whirlwind)? would make sense if you were an air genasi maybe...

Loviatar's basically the god of self abuse flagellates...9 tailed barbed whip.

Apsu (pathfinder) but his favoured weapon is "breath weapon". Force Breath?

Ilsensine will get you tentacle.

Valarian gives unicorn horn.

Those are a bit weird on a favoured soul / spiritual weapon.

[123456789blaaa]

One of the favored weapons of the goddess Akadi is a whirlwind  . I'm not sure how that works by RAW...maybe since she's the queen of elemental air, it's the whirlwind attack of air elementals? Anyways, use the spiritual weapon spell and create FORCE WHIRLWINDS  .

I wonder if there are other dieties with weird favored weapons...

I've always liked Ulutiu, for Harpoon access... a force harpoon sounds like a fun way to impale incorporeal creatures and limit their movements.

A favoured soul of Akadi would gain proficiency (whirlwind) and weapon focus (whirlwind)? would make sense if you were an air genasi maybe...

Loviatar's basically the god of self abuse flagellates...9 tailed barbed whip.

Apsu (pathfinder) but his favoured weapon is "breath weapon". Force Breath?

Ilsensine will get you tentacle.

Valarian gives unicorn horn.

Those are a bit weird on a favoured soul / spiritual weapon.

According to Lords of Madness the favored weapon of Ilsensine is an unarmed strike. We all know how weird those are...

[Kasz]

Well It's unarmed strike unless you're an illithid. It's a tentacle for most worshippers.

[zook1shoe]

the artificer gets too many bonus feats, as said in the following...

An artificer gains every item creation feat at or near the level at which it becomes available for spellcasters.*snip*

this means you get many more feats than listed. They only name the PHB ones in the ability.
ex- Attune Gem, Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, etc.

from my previous post.... i'm curious if it bypasses some of the prerequisites? it seems to only need to satisfy the 'when its available to spellcasters'

[SorO_Lost]

the artificer gets too many bonus feats, as said in the following...

An artificer gains every item creation feat at or near the level at which it becomes available for spellcasters.*snip*

this means you get many more feats than listed. They only name the PHB ones in the ability.
ex- Attune Gem, Craft Psionic Arms and Armor, etc.

Powerful Build does not make you f*cking large. Pelor-effigy-Superman.

Not relevant? I beg to differ, same dumb argument. Let's quote the introduction sentence and ignore the rest of the entry as it defines exactly what it means and does.

[Kethrian]

Yeah, he's just mis-reading the sentence, trying to apply the word "every" to only the part about item creation feats, and not the part about Artificer.  It could easily be rewritten as "Every item creation feat an Artificer gains is at or near the level at which it becomes available for spellcasters."  Great thing the rest of that paragraph clarifies exactly what the sentence means by stating exactly which feats and when.

[linklord231]

Yeah, he's just mis-reading the sentence, trying to apply the word "every" to only the part about item creation feats, and not the part about Artificer.  It could easily be rewritten as "Every item creation feat an Artificer gains is at or near the level at which it becomes available for spellcasters."  Great thing the rest of that paragraph clarifies exactly what the sentence means by stating exactly which feats and when.

"Every" means "all the individual members of a set without exception."  If you're using it to refer only to the listed feats, you obviously have some exceptions.  In order to be accurately re-written into the form above without changing the meaning, the original sentence would have had to be "An Artificer gains each of these item creation feats..." or similar. 

If "Every" doesn't apply to the phrase "item creation feats", what does it apply to? 

[Kethrian]

Simple, it applies to item creation feats that the artificer gains as bonus feats.  Every single one of those is gained at or near the level a spellcaster could gain it.  Just as the sentence can be read as saying.

[linklord231]

Simple, it applies to item creation feats that the artificer gains as bonus feats.  Every single one of those is gained at or near the level a spellcaster could gain it.  Just as the sentence can be read as saying.

You're putting in extra qualifiers that don't exist in the text.  You're reading it as "The Artificer gains every item creation feat [from this list] at or near the level it becomes available to spellcasters."  That's not what it says.  It says that Artificers gain every item creation feat, and then gives some examples.  Nowhere does it indicate that the list is exhaustive. 

[Kethrian]

You are trying to read the sentence without context, as if it were an island.  But it's surrounded by context: The header (bonus feats), and the following sentences in the paragraph (which feats and at what level).  The word "every" is applying to when you get them, not how many you get.  And I checked, it is indeed correct, every one of those artificer bonus item creation feats is at or near when a spellcaster could pick them up.

Edit: Also, it does not follow up with "some examples".  It specifically says "He gets" followed by which feats and when.  No mention of them as examples or that there are any others.  That is an exhaustive list.

[linklord231]

Please explain grammatically how the word "every" could apply to "level," or any other word or phrase besides "item creation feat," in this context. 

Bonus Feat: An artificer gains every item creation feat as a bonus feat at or near the level at which it becomes available to spellcasters. He gets Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat at 1st level. Brew Potion at 2nd level. Craft Wondrous Item at 3rd level. Craft Magic Arms and Armor at 5th level. Craft Wand at 7th level. Craft Rod at 9th level, Craft Staff at 12th level. and Forge Ring at 14th level.
In addition, an artificer gains a bonus feat at 4th level and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th. 16th, and 20th). For each of these bonus feats, the artificer must choose a metamagic feat or a feat from the following list: Attune Magic Weapon, Craft Construct (see the Monster Manual, page 303). Exceptional Artisan, Extra Rings. Extraordinary
Artisan, Legendary Artisan, Wand Mastery.

In what way does the list of enumerated feats, or anything else in that section contradict the idea that Artificers get every item creation feat that becomes available to spellcasters? 

[Kethrian]

In the next paragraph, where the artificer can choose other bonus feats from a list, Craft Construct is there.  It is an item creation feat, but it is not one that artificers automatically get.  And it's specifically mentioned in the Bonus Feats area.  Therefore "every" cannot apply to the number of feats, and therefore must apply to when the artificer gets the ones listed.

[linklord231]

In the next paragraph, where the artificer can choose other bonus feats from a list, Craft Construct is there.  It is an item creation feat, but it is not one that artificers automatically get.  And it's specifically mentioned in the Bonus Feats area.  Therefore "every" cannot apply to the number of feats, and therefore must apply to when the artificer gets the ones listed.

Nope.  I looked at that first, and Craft Construct does not have a CL prerequisite.  It doesn't have a level that it would normally become available for spellcasters, so an Artificer wouldn't get it from that first sentence.

[Kethrian]

Except that there are 2 feats with CL requirements as prerequisites.  Therefore, it must come no earlier than when you get those, because only once you have both Craft Magic Arms and Armour, and Craft Wondrous Item does it become available to casters.  Ergo, it only becomes available to spellcasters at 5th level (the higher CL minimum prerequisite), if they already have both other feats.  Easily extrapolated, and fits within the definition you ascribe.

[linklord231]

Except that there are 2 feats with CL requirements as prerequisites.  Therefore, it must come no earlier than when you get those, because only once you have both Craft Magic Arms and Armour, and Craft Wondrous Item does it become available to casters.  Ergo, it only becomes available to spellcasters at 5th level (the higher CL minimum prerequisite), if they already have both other feats.  Easily extrapolated, and fits within the definition you ascribe.

Spellcasters with both the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats are a small subset of "spellcasters".  Craft Construct never becomes available to "spellcasters" in general, only to ones with certain feats.

[Kethrian]

Spellcasters with both the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats are a small subset of "spellcasters".  Craft Construct never becomes available to "spellcasters" in general, only to ones with certain feats.

It's still an item creation feat, as are the Artisan feats from ECS, which are also on the list of pickable bonus feats.  If "every" does not apply to them, then the artificer obviously can't get "every" item creation feat automatically (no CL prereq would default to class level 1, the minimum level anyone can have).  Ergo your interpretation that the first sentence means "every item creation feat" must be incorrect.