Optimization of Telepath/Thrallherd Build

[Daolothe]

I am building a Telepath for a campaign of  4 PCs. We are starting at level 3 and assigning ability scores on the 34-point buy system. The campaign takes place in Eberron, and naval battles are going to be a large part of the story. Any of the books are valid. The other three people in my party are an Elvish Ranger, an Illusionist (Not sure what race yet), and a stone giant tank-like character.

I can already tell that one of the players in my group is going to do the best in my group, since he's using some crazy build involving draining hit dice, being a stone giant, and having 26 strength at level 3. I don't want to be left behind, so I'm looking to optimize my Telepath build. I would also like to prestige into Thrallherd at some point, because it sounds fun and looks powerful.

I'm not sure what powers, feasts, and ability scores would be best for a character of this type. I've looked through the boards and not found a good build for a Telepath/Thrallherd. Could I get some help in deciding which powers, feats, and ability scores would most benefit my character?

[Cyrocloud]

What house rules are you operating under, cause normally you can't be a stone giant till level 18 (14 HD +4LA).

[phaedrusxy]

What house rules are you operating under, cause normally you can't be a stone giant till level 18.

He says the guy is abusing level loss/drain to lower the racial hit dice of a stone giant. Very shady, but possibly legal.

Telepath/Thrallherd is quite possibly one of the most powerful characters possible in D&D. Here is one I played for a while (it was actually a shaper/thrallherd, but that hardly matters at all...).

The biggest tricks with Thrallherd specifically are:
1) You can basically have any power you want via Metaconcert/manifesting from an unknown source/Feat Leech (to steal someone's Expanded Knowledge feat)/etc.
2) You can also have any psionic feat you want via Feat Leech.
3) Since your thralls and believers are completely expendable and replace themselves automatically, you can be an absolute tyrant and abuse them for all kinds of things like sacrificing their souls for XP, turning them into undead under your control, etc...

My build also combined the best elements of The Big Guy is with Me build and the Psionic Sandwich, which are basically summed up as: 1) take Improved Psicrystal a bunch of times, and use this as a surrogate "body" and 2) possess an inanimate object permanently

[Daolothe]

I should add that we are allowed to take 2 flaws.

Why would you want to take multiple ranks in Improved Psicrystal multiple times? I see that it says "From now on, when determining the abilities of your psicrystal, treat your manifester level as one higher than your normal manifester level." What does this actually mean?

I read about Psicrystals, but still don't understand all that they can do. I have heard that there is a debate over whether they should share feats. Could you please explain the purposes of a Psicrystal?

I thought that the Psionic Sandwich was a joking build; the best optimization of a useless build. Also, I think it'd be totally rad if I could transform myself into a weapon (AKA Soul), but I don't want to base my entire build about it. Would that be something that would require a great deal of preparation?

[phaedrusxy]

I should add that we are allowed to take 2 flaws.

Why would you want to take multiple ranks in Improved Psicrystal multiple times? I see that it says "From now on, when determining the abilities of your psicrystal, treat your manifester level as one higher than your normal manifester level." What does this actually mean?

I read about Psicrystals, but still don't understand all that they can do. I have heard that there is a debate over whether they should share feats. Could you please explain the purposes of a Psicrystal?

The easy way to demonstrate this is to suggest you look at the stat blocks of the psicrystal after it has been Metamorphed into various forms. The utility of taking Improved Psicrystal multiple times hinges strongly on whether the psicrystal is ruled to get feats or not, but even without that it still gets improved abilities like Flight (which work even if you Meta/polymorph it into some thing else), Channel Power, etc. See the table.

I thought that the Psionic Sandwich was a joking build; the best optimization of a useless build. Also, I think it'd be totally rad if I could transform myself into a weapon (AKA Soul), but I don't want to base my entire build about it. Would that be something that would require a great deal of preparation?

It was a joke, but if you use the same tactics to permanently inhabit something more hardy than a sandwich (like say... an airship, or an adamantine statue), it can be a significant power-up. If you're willing to be an undead, it takes almost no prep work or changes to the build at all. Just have a cleric use the spell Haunt Shift on you.

[Daolothe]

If I am level 3 with 2 points in Improved Psicrystal, will my Psicrystal have the ability to telepathically speak? Also, what does the increased Manifester level from Improved Psicrystal do?

What is a haunting presence? Haunt Shift says that it turns an undead into a haunting presence. First of all, how would I become undead? Also, what would the implications be of making this transformation?

Sorry for asking so many questions; I'm relatively new to DnD.

[phaedrusxy]

If I am level 3 with 2 points in Improved Psicrystal, will my Psicrystal have the ability to telepathically speak?

Yes. 

Also, what does the increased Manifester level from Improved Psicrystal do?

Nothing other than increase the abilities (and virtual hit dice) your psicrystal has. It's kind of tricky to figure out, but psicrystals are listed as having hit dice "equal to their masters" (paraphrased). Since they're constructs, this means that they get a 3/4 BAB progression (like a cleric). So they can make decent combatants, especially given the ways psions have to deflect/mitigate hit point damage (Vigor + Share Pain, etc).

This is practically hard to pull off till you get the ability to manifest Metamorphosis, though. Expanded Knowledge (Bite of the Wolf), and Psionic Minor Creation (for making plant-based poisons) can make it passable at the lower levels. If you can be assured in getting access to Psychic Reformation occasionally to reconfigure your feats, this is a lot more tolerable, as you can ignore this option till you get to a high enough level to make it practical.

What is a haunting presence? Haunt Shift says that it turns an undead into a haunting presence. First of all, how would I become undead? Also, what would the implications be of making this transformation?

Sorry for asking so many questions; I'm relatively new to DnD.

It's in the Libris Mortis book. Basically, it's a limited form of "ghost" which is trapped within an object, but which can animate the object (or portions of it). I'd look at the book if you want to know the details.

As to how to become an undead, the easiest way is via the Necropolitan template, also in Libris Mortis. You basically just change the type of a creature to undead, with few other benefits. It costs 1 level and 1000 XP, if I recall correctly, but has no level adjustment.

[Daolothe]

Okay, I'll look more into those things. Thanks for all the help!

[phaedrusxy]

Sure... however, if you're new to D&D I don't know if actually playing a character like this is a good idea... Eddie was probably the most complicated D&D character I ever made/played... and he'd almost certainly not be allowed in most games. Also, starting at level 3 he wouldn't have had access to almost any of the most complicated/powerful parts of the character. This character might be a better guide for that, although in the later levels he could easily have "morphed" into something like Eddie. (I really hate that the game with Saul died so early... it was looking like a lot of fun, and I really enjoyed the character...)

[linklord231]

Don't forget to trade your 5th level Psion Bonus Feat for Telepathy (details here).  This allows you to take the Mindsight feat from Lords of Madness pg 126, which makes you pretty much the ultimate scout.

[phaedrusxy]

Don't forget to trade your 5th level Psion Bonus Feat for Telepathy (details here).  This allows you to take the Mindsight feat from Lords of Madness pg 126, which makes you pretty much the ultimate scout.

You might also be able to have your psicrystal take the feat instead, depending on how the DM adjudicates them getting feats, how their limited telpathy works (and if it qualifies), etc). Psicrystals make great scouts, and again depending on how the DM adjudicates getting a replacement one if yours "dies", they might be more expendable than PCs...

[awaken_D_M_golem]

variation would be to go Discipline (Telepath) Erudite
with some slightly different cheese available, but
otherwise as PhaeXY's build.

[linklord231]

Your psicrystal can also take Life sense, but that might be a bit redundant.

[Cyrocloud]

Sorry I'm a bit hung up on that Stone Giant thing, you should ask to see how the LA is being waived whether DM why the hell not, or you get less point buy to make up for it, or even if a flaw can be taken to lower the LA by one, because you might be able to snag a pretty tasty template like Phrenic, Half-Fey or like a Primordial Half-Giant (Necropolitan too if that doesn't disqualify Primoridial).

[Gazzien]

variation would be to go Discipline (Telepath) Erudite
with some slightly different cheese available, but
otherwise as PhaeXY's build.

How are you doing this? Doesn't Erudite say that you don't pick a discipline to specialize in?

[linklord231]

Minds Eye Web articles have a variant that chooses a favored discipline in exchange for something. Same one as has Spell to Power, if I recall correctly. You MIGHT be able to pull a super-cheese and take Favored Discipline: Spells, and learn spells at your full level.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Yep, Mind's Eye has some variants.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050110a

Spell to Power can learn 1 level down spells.  Favored Discipline can learn at level powers ... which needs the Dr#349 Chameleon Crafting feat to make a powerstone of a spell in the same discipline/school, and then learn/repertoire that.  Yes it's a little more complicated than Original Erudite or StP Erudite, but on a few things it's better.  Spell Points on Enchantment school sounds like fun.

[Mithril Leaf]

Sorry I'm a bit hung up on that Stone Giant thing, you should ask to see how the LA is being waived whether DM why the hell not, or you get less point buy to make up for it, or even if a flaw can be taken to lower the LA by one, because you might be able to snag a pretty tasty template like Phrenic, Half-Fey or like a Primordial Half-Giant (Necropolitan too if that doesn't disqualify Primoridial).

If you can exploit the same stuff as the Stone Giant along these lines, I'll really have to recommend becoming an Unbodied. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/unbodied.htm

[Vampireshado]

Sorry I'm a bit hung up on that Stone Giant thing, you should ask to see how the LA is being waived whether DM why the hell not, or you get less point buy to make up for it, or even if a flaw can be taken to lower the LA by one, because you might be able to snag a pretty tasty template like Phrenic, Half-Fey or like a Primordial Half-Giant (Necropolitan too if that doesn't disqualify Primoridial).

If you can exploit the same stuff as the Stone Giant along these lines, I'll really have to recommend becoming an Unbodied. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/unbodied.htm

The LA isn't being waived, I'm just draining away the hit dice. 4 LA doesn't harm a hulking hurler build nearly as much as it does a full manifester. And I'm playing a stone giant because of my character's background, not because it's optimal. But, on the note of LA, we are using buy off, so taking a few levels in the ghost savage progression might be a good idea daolothe. You can find it here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a

Edit: Wait! I completely forgot that unbodied manifest as 4th level telepaths. By all means, do it.

[Daolothe]

So, if I chose to build an Unbodied character and drain the hit dice, would it use any of my class ranks? Also, since Unbodied manifest as 4th level Psions, does that give me all of the benefits of having 4 levels in Psion (skill points, etc)? How would I level as an Unbodied and how would I get the Psionic powers that come with being Unbodied, like Mind Thrust?