Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!

[SorO_Lost]

So I don't really know if this has been discussed before

As of April 2006 it had already been discussed enough to be considered old and tiresome but I suppose it's new to you.

The tl;dr gist is kind of like you think. By twisting the words to mean what you want instead of the message they are designed to say a 6th level Beguiler can use VA to cast 4th level Spells and gains a 4th level Slot and the "trick" stops there. No Bonus Slots for a second 4th to and the moment you reassign it to a 5th you lose your access to 4ths, but that hasn't stopped the same people from asserting instant 9ths because generally if you find someone willing to argue this they also really don't care what's right or not.

However as touched upon in other threads, prerequisites are not subjective. They refer to mechanical abilities and an end result. For example, if they were subjective enough for VA to exceed them then inarguable using a Staff to cast a 9th level Spell does as well. But thankfully you can gleam examples of otherwise, intent from CAr's updated clarifications, and even when in doubt the PHB's observance of a minimum CL required to cast a Spell which is reinforced every time a new item creation section is made or updated.

Debate aside, you can sell your soul for the same effect so you don't even need the PrC.

[deadkitten]

So I don't really know if this has been discussed before

As of April 2006 it had already been discussed enough to be considered old and tiresome but I suppose it's new to you.

The tl;dr gist is kind of like you think. By twisting the words to mean what you want instead of the message they are designed to say a 6th level Beguiler can use VA to cast 4th level Spells and gains a 4th level Slot and the "trick" stops there. No Bonus Slots for a second 4th to and the moment you reassign it to a 5th you lose your access to 4ths, but that hasn't stopped the same people from asserting instant 9ths because generally if you find someone willing to argue this they also really don't care what's right or not.

However as touched upon in other threads, prerequisites are not subjective. They refer to mechanical abilities and an end result. For example, if they were subjective enough for VA to exceed them then inarguable using a Staff to cast a 9th level Spell does as well. But thankfully you can gleam examples of otherwise, intent from CAr's updated clarifications, and even when in doubt the PHB's observance of a minimum CL required to cast a Spell which is reinforced every time a new item creation section is made or updated.

Debate aside, you can sell your soul for the same effect so you don't even need the PrC.

Oh, I was aware of Versatile Spellcaster+ Beguiler. Shenaningans being a common thing and rather old.

I just posted the above cause it looked like you could combine it with Exploit vestige to gain access to an actual spell slot of the level that you are using Versatile Spellcaster to temporarily gain acess to, and I was not aware if that had been noticed before. 

And as for miminimum caster level thing, I can see your point on that.

[SorO_Lost]

I just posted the above cause it looked like you could combine it with Exploit vestige to gain access to an actual spell slot of the level that you are using Versatile Spellcaster to temporarily gain acess to, and I was not aware if that had been noticed before.

Yeah and a couple variants exist too, like Elven Generalist is typically used to grant the second new Slot to reestablish VA's chain. And sometimes people like to go the whole nine yards and tries to trade away School Specialization (which includes specializing in generalist) to combine Spontaneous Divination and Elven Generalist just so you can do it at the 1st level.

[IlPazzo]

Sorry for the off topic, but this has been bugging me since the thread on infinite spells per day by chemus: why is it that you (Soro) refer to versatile spellcaster as "VA"?

[SorO_Lost]

Sorry for the off topic, but this has been bugging me since the thread on infinite spells per day by chemus: why is it that you (Soro) refer to versatile spellcaster as "VA"?

Probably because I suffer from an undiagnosed mental condition called poor judgement on time allocation. But to be fair my professional life is one of those things I'm at the whim of morons trying to unsuccessfully kill someone so I'm not even sure what it's like to ever go uninterrupted in anything.

Edit - I also realized that doesn't really explain "VA" does it? Around here the Veterans Administration's Hospital is simply called the VA so like a word missed because the spellchecker didn't underline it, "VA" to me is a known abbreviation and missed just as easily.

[phaedrusxy]

Hey... at least the spellchecker didn't change it to VD...

[Nytemare3701]

I was reading it as Versatile Arcanist and getting increasingly confused.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Working in the VA is an honorable thing to do.

(paraphrasing) :  to be fair my downtime is one of those things I'm at the whim of morons trying to unsuccessfully kill R.A.I. , so I'm not even sure what
 

Because slapping people upside the head with a demiplane is too awesome to be buried in T.O.!

Meh.

You don't need to butcher the flying crap out of how a crystal stops being a crystal to blow up to claim you can wield something as an improvised weapon. I mean you could honestly try using a shape altering effect to claim just about anything is a "bolt" to an imaginary creature size for the purposes of Launch Bolt or w/e. Likewise given the prevalent of extrademsional spaces in D&D you could always ask your DM about casting Magic Weapon on your Handy Haversack before waylaying them solo-Banjo style with something that houses thousands of lives (just stuff swarms into it).

Call Weaponry is a normal item.
Soulbound is a specific item (twice) and is masterwork to be a +1 magic item.
Mundane Crystal equal masterwork.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/specialMaterials.htm#crystalMundane

SRD has 3 Genesis's (genesii ?) ... but Planar Vanguard 10 has a lot more stuff it can do.
It can set the Elemental Traits, so Earth + Positive = 2e style Mineral = lots of crystals.
"has total control over the landscape at the moment of creation, so she can decide whether it will be foreboding, mountainous wasteland, or bucolic forest."
Bucolic forest is more complicated than simple crystal.

If the problem of the psicrystal part,
is that it's not enough of a psicrystal to get turned into the demiplane,
you could always have a actual psicrystal, fest Fusion on the weapon and psicrystal,
and then PAO the combo into itself to make it permanent.

[Keldar]

So I don't really know if this has been discussed before

As of April 2006 it had already been discussed enough to be considered old and tiresome but I suppose it's new to you.

The tl;dr gist is kind of like you think. By twisting the words to mean what you want instead of the message they are designed to say a 6th level Beguiler can use VA to cast 4th level Spells and gains a 4th level Slot and the "trick" stops there. No Bonus Slots for a second 4th to and the moment you reassign it to a 5th you lose your access to 4ths, but that hasn't stopped the same people from asserting instant 9ths because generally if you find someone willing to argue this they also really don't care what's right or not.

However as touched upon in other threads, prerequisites are not subjective. They refer to mechanical abilities and an end result. For example, if they were subjective enough for VA to exceed them then inarguable using a Staff to cast a 9th level Spell does as well. But thankfully you can gleam examples of otherwise, intent from CAr's updated clarifications, and even when in doubt the PHB's observance of a minimum CL required to cast a Spell which is reinforced every time a new item creation section is made or updated.

Debate aside, you can sell your soul for the same effect so you don't even need the PrC.

Oh, I was aware of Versatile Spellcaster+ Beguiler. Shenaningans being a common thing and rather old.

I just posted the above cause it looked like you could combine it with Exploit vestige to gain access to an actual spell slot of the level that you are using Versatile Spellcaster to temporarily gain acess to, and I was not aware if that had been noticed before. 

And as for miminimum caster level thing, I can see your point on that.

Everyone misses that.  Every single time.

[Amechra]

Lightning Blade might have some shenanigans WRT stuff that add bonus damage to spells.

For example, I think an Energy Substitution (Fire) Lightning Blade with Blistering Spell would add the Blistering Spell damage to each attack made with your Lightning Blade (for Xd6+4 damage per attack).

=---=

I also think Holy Warrior is a pretty nice feat for spontaneous casters with access to the War Domain. Then it's essentially "your weapon attacks deal bonus damage equal to the highest unexpended spell slot you have."

=---=

Also, an odd question: am I wrong in thinking that an Arcane spellcaster with the Arcane Disciple feat can qualify for Sovereign Speaker? I don't have Faiths of Eberron, but it looks like being able to cast Divine spells is a requirement of neither Worldly Focus nor Sovereign Speaker.

If so... how many Domains would you be willing to add to your spell list in exchange for caster levels?

[Sinfire Titan]

Also, an odd question: am I wrong in thinking that an Arcane spellcaster with the Arcane Disciple feat can qualify for Sovereign Speaker? I don't have Faiths of Eberron, but it looks like being able to cast Divine spells is a requirement of neither Worldly Focus nor Sovereign Speaker.

If so... how many Domains would you be willing to add to your spell list in exchange for caster levels?

No, it requires divine casting (and only progresses divine casting).

[Amechra]

Also, an odd question: am I wrong in thinking that an Arcane spellcaster with the Arcane Disciple feat can qualify for Sovereign Speaker? I don't have Faiths of Eberron, but it looks like being able to cast Divine spells is a requirement of neither Worldly Focus nor Sovereign Speaker.

If so... how many Domains would you be willing to add to your spell list in exchange for caster levels?

No, it requires divine casting (and only progresses divine casting).

Alright, so it's a case of the scribes at [REDACTED] messing up. Gotcha.

[Chemus]

Also, an odd question: am I wrong in thinking that an Arcane spellcaster with the Arcane Disciple feat can qualify for Sovereign Speaker? I don't have Faiths of Eberron, but it looks like being able to cast Divine spells is a requirement of neither Worldly Focus nor Sovereign Speaker.

If so... how many Domains would you be willing to add to your spell list in exchange for caster levels?

No, it requires divine casting (and only progresses divine casting).

You're exactly correct that it only advances divine spellcasting, but it only requires Kn(Rel) 8, access to any one domain, and the Worldly Focus feat. That only requires that you worship the Sovereign host.

If you're saying that Arcane Disciple doesn't actually provide 'access' to the domain the spells are granted from, then I see your point. Though it's not completely out of bounds to read it either way, IMO.

Now, only a caster of cleric spells gets any utility out of the benefit of the WF feat, namely that you can cast cleric spells without a divine focus, but the Wiz could take it and perhaps Arc. Disc. or Divine Oracle, and get into S.Spkr. He'd just get the domain access and no effective caster class levels granted.

[Sinfire Titan]

Also, an odd question: am I wrong in thinking that an Arcane spellcaster with the Arcane Disciple feat can qualify for Sovereign Speaker? I don't have Faiths of Eberron, but it looks like being able to cast Divine spells is a requirement of neither Worldly Focus nor Sovereign Speaker.

If so... how many Domains would you be willing to add to your spell list in exchange for caster levels?

No, it requires divine casting (and only progresses divine casting).

You're exactly correct that it only advances divine spellcasting, but it only requires Kn(Rel) 8, access to any one domain, and the Worldly Focus feat. That only requires that you worship the Sovereign host.

If you're saying that Arcane Disciple doesn't actually provide 'access' to the domain the spells are granted from, then I see your point. Though it's not completely out of bounds to read it either way, IMO.

Now, only a caster of cleric spells gets any utility out of the benefit of the WF feat, namely that you can cast cleric spells without a divine focus, but the Wiz could take it and perhaps Arc. Disc. or Divine Oracle, and get into S.Spkr. He'd just get the domain access and no effective caster class levels granted.

Able to cast divine spells, must worship the Sovereign Host without favoring one god over the others, access to at least one cleric domain (Eberron adepts meet this requirement).

If you're referencing D&D Tools, be aware that the text is incomplete in multiple articles. This is the text copied straight from a PDF.

[kitep]

Interesting.  My pdf doesn't have that line -- but it does have a blank line exactly where that line would be.  I added a sticky note to mark the correction (not that that helps anyone else here)

[Chemus]

If you're referencing D&D Tools, be aware that the text is incomplete in multiple articles. This is the text copied straight from a PDF.

Interesting.  My pdf doesn't have that line -- but it does have a blank line exactly where that line would be.  I added a sticky note to mark the correction (not that that helps anyone else here)

Actually, that line is uncolored in my PDF; when I select the text there, an copy it, it does indeed say "Special: Ability to cast divine spells, must worship the..." (that's copypasta)

Apologies for doubting you ST; I'd 'researched' Sov.Host in the recent past, so I'd just re-checked the 'book' and then corrected you. Incorrectly, as it turns out.

[SorO_Lost]

I despise PDF errors like that. 

A lot of mine have additional spaces, tabs, or oddly placed line breaks

[Chemus]

Yeah, the OCR screws up many instances of 'fl' and 'fi' to be disconnected from the rest of the word (fl ogging, defi ant, etc), apparently due to font recognition or some such. I usually correct those prior to posting pasted text, while I remove the text 'reflow', if I recognize the error.

[Sinfire Titan]

I despise PDF errors like that. 

A lot of mine have additional spaces, tabs, or oddly placed line breaks

My original PDF of PH2 was missing every page that showed Celerity, including the spell list section. I ended up finding a better one later on.

[Sinfire Titan]

The Shaper of Form (DraComp) is a rather mediocre class to take to 10th level, but a 1 level dip gives a stupidly abusive class feature: Like Begets Like.

It doesn't do much; it lets you turn one object into another with some fairly strict regulations on what can be done (think FMA's alchemy). I makes one stupid little caveat that utterly breaks the class: it can be used to double the value of any item permanently. That 100gp cost for Identify? Halved if you use the ability once. Quartered for twice. Balking at the cost of True Res? Just give a SoF a couple of days. Goodbye WBL problems! These are permanent changes.

Also the 6th level class feature lets you create magic items at no cost, up to 1,000gp per SoF level. But that costs 3 levels of spellcasting if you want it (although non-full casters can qualify for this class fairly easily). The item lasts for 1 round/level, but whatever. And getting that 6th level gives you either 1 or 2 additional daily uses of the Like Begets Like ability.

Edit: Just saw the capstone: No save, no SR single-target Disjunction (item only). That's outright broken if you can tank the CL loss (an Ur-Priest can qualify for it).