The language argument

[ImperatorK]

lol, that side of the boat will sink first.... w/ so many people over there

What?

[altpersona]

boats lean toward the heavy side. the side with all the people on it. (small boats)

boat still sinks, but one side gets their feet wet first.

[ImperatorK]

boats lean toward the heavy side. the side with all the people on it. (small boats)

boat still sinks, but one side gets their feet wet first.

Please, stop trolling.

[Sinfire Titan]

boats lean toward the heavy side. the side with all the people on it. (small boats)

boat still sinks, but one side gets their feet wet first.

Please, stop trolling.

He isn't, but his metaphor is irrelevant to the conversation.

[altpersona]

 

[EjoThims]

The kind of understanding it takes practice and expression to learn; instead of just throwing it aside because "conveying meaning is all that matters."

No doubt the use of two sentence fragments joined by a semicolon (which would still be a fragment if they were joined with a comma) was deliberate.  I, for one, appreciate the irony.

 

Entirely deliberate indeed.

And though, it seems, in large part you and I disagree only on scale; these are all examples and applications of why English does have an established norm and a 'correct' form, despite, at it's height of use, being far more an art than an equation.

Actually, after that post, I'm having trouble being able to tell where it is that our disagreement is.

Perhaps there isn't any. Yet, it took some time to establish that, as we were each expressing our ideas in different ways.

[ariasderros]

Perhaps there isn't any. Yet, it took some time to establish that, as we were each expressing our ideas in different ways.

So, because this is relevant.
I was once arguing with Caelic in the Firearms thread. It ended up being because we were saying the same thing in different ways.
I was arguing with Sor0_lost in a thread about Dragon age abuse. It was because I hadn't re-emphasized which spell I was referring to.
Now I was arguing with EjoThims just because he hadn't specified what his exact points were, and I ended up attacking the "empty space" in the argument.

One argument was because of the method of expression (with sor0, I should have followed the rules for how to answer something [i.e. always specifying to what you are referring to). Two were because of what was, and wasn't, being expressed.

[ShadowViper]

Can't we all just get along?

[wotmaniac]

Can't we all just get along?

No -- I'd rather get 4 of my buddies and beat people with heavy sticks.   Don't worry -- we'll stop when they quit trying to get away.
It really is surprisingly fun. 
 


(actually, I have no idea what that's like; and would only do something like that if they really had it coming .... like for disagreeing with me on the internet or something)

[Basket Burner]

Can't we all just get along?

No -- I'd rather get 4 of my buddies and beat people with heavy sticks.   Don't worry -- we'll stop when they quit trying to get away.
It really is surprisingly fun. 
 


(actually, I have no idea what that's like; and would only do something like that if they really had it coming .... like for disagreeing with me on the internet or something)

Just remember to focus your attacks on one at a time like the supergeniuses you are.

[ariasderros]

No -- I'd rather get 4 of my buddies and beat people with heavy sticks.   Don't worry -- we'll stop when they quit trying to get away.

Where I come from, that's called 'forming a union'.

Although, I am unsure of in what way we were not getting along. The conversation was, for the most part, no more than an intellectual debate on the merits and flaws about the rules of the English language, and how they are formed.

Then again, I mentally edit out irrelevant prattle, so I may have missed name-calling or the like somewhere.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Can't we all just get along?

NEVER !!

 


I drove cab for a while, and the airport had a lot of business.
The international students came through every year ; some
of their English skills were absolutely terrible.  Then they went
full immersion and got better. 

Still ... ESL english is a very different ball game. The brain
uses other parts, than childhood language learners.
Backhanded apology for my sometimes clipped English.
Billionaires can communicate effectively with worse than
7th grade English training. Run-ons and all ...

[Kuroimaken]

Ultimately, seems to me most people either follow linguistic rules or not depending on how they're raised or how they come in contact with the language itself.

I was raised in a reading family. We have a good library. I readed a lot of comics as a kid. Never been much for poetry, but I love stories. And it's great when you can feel a story come to life in your mind. In the absence of illustration, though, all you've got is words.

So I've come to respect how the language works. I've come to love these rules, however silly or just plain convoluted they are.

Strangely, though I've been known to correct people on grammar a lot, I've never been called a grammar nazi.

[Sinfire Titan]

Backhanded apology for my sometimes clipped English.

I know I shouldn't laugh, but I did.

[Jackinthegreen]

I wasn't really raised to follow linguistics.  It's just something I picked up over the years because I found I had a talent for learning and my teachers generally taught me well with regards to English.  The education system here in the US is fucked up, but there are some gems within.

Speaking of teachers, I just remembered the name of one I've been trying to remember for the past few days.  Now I can sleep without wondering what Mr. Baggaley's name is.

[SorO_Lost]

Since everyone thinks they know English far better than I think I do, mind answering some questions of mine?

Why is elven eleven and not oneity-one?
When is now?
Is "7-eleven" incorrect?
If a turtle has it's shell surgically removed, is it naked or homeless?
Can one truly perform self-help?
Why are free drinks on the house if you're served one inside?
Why do flight attendants tell me to get on the plane when I'm clearly getting into it?
Speaking of planes, wouldn't a near-miss mean collision?
If olive oil is made out of olives, should I hold funeral rites for my baby oil?
Would a fly without wings be called a walk?
Why is it if I transport a box in my car it's called a shipment but if I drive a boat it's called cargo?
Why is silence golden if duct tape is silver?

Thanks in advance.

[wotmaniac]

I'm reminded of this
(the sound kinda sucks, but still watchable)

[EjoThims]

I'll take a shot at the ones I can. I'm probably taking these more seriously than you meant them... 

When is now?

Never. 'Now' is a fictional construct meant to illustrate that something happening over a duration of time is currently in the process of happening, but there is never and will never be a process moment which is 'now.' There simply is what will be and what has been.

If a turtle has it's shell surgically removed, is it naked or homeless?

Naked. Homes (while just being where the heart is) are usually places with room to move around and keep your stuff. A turtle is just wearing very loose armor.

Can one truly perform self-help?

Yes, or else it would not be possible to "help one's self" to another portion of delicious pie.

Why are free drinks on the house if you're served one inside?

It's the same idea as "the house always wins" when dealing with casinos. "The house" is the hosting organization or business, and the drinks are "on them" the same way they are "on me" when I buy a round for the bar when I've had too much to drink.

If olive oil is made out of olives, should I hold funeral rites for my baby oil?

Two different naming conventions... Edible oils are usually named by what they are made with. Oils not intended for eating are usually named by that which they are intended to be used on.

Why is silence golden if duct tape is silver?

Because duct tape's intended use isn't as a gag, but for bondage. 

[bhu]

If a turtle has it's shell surgically removed, is it naked or homeless?

Dead.  You have to do catastrophic damage to remove a shell depending on the species, and most wouldn;'t survive it.

[Tshern]

My respect for the human race falls down yet another notch.

I've been grading practical tests on Introduction to Computing(you know where they just do microsoft office). I've lost faith in humanity when a third of the class seems likely to fail on tests that involve formatting text, using excel formulas, shading boxes, borders....

In a recent 300 level (3rd year of college for those elsewhere in the world) English class, the professor was forced to give reminders on the following after grading the essays:

1. Fragments bad.
2. Run-on sentences are bad they make your paper hard to read you should not use them.
3. We're going to have a 20 minute refresher course on dangling participles, because folks are structuring sentences such that the direct object is the thing taking action.

I would have walked out of that class without a second thought.  If people are that shitty, call up a study group, or send them to tutoring - if I wanted to waste my time and money watching other people learn basic english, I could go take my 100 level courses again. 

Gah - lots of bad memories of that happening back in undergrad.  I quickly learned to take even basic courses with professors with tenure - they don't give a fuck about people failing.

To be fair, the class sounds like something average Americans would find quite useful.