Author Topic: Mechanics from DDO  (Read 14729 times)

Offline Prime32

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Mechanics from DDO
« on: February 10, 2013, 12:11:35 PM »
Dungeons & Dragons Online gets a few things more balanced than the system it was based on. Some of this is just engine restrictions (no walking through walls, etc) but there's plenty of mechanics that are worth looking at. I'll be posting some "translations"; if an ability can be improved by level-up enhancements, I'll fold them into the ability itself and rejig the formula.

SorO has already taken a look at the monk here.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 01:06:37 PM by Prime32 »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2013, 12:50:18 PM »
AC grants a scaling reduction in damage and the system has dodge chances.

IE, load up on armor to take less damage if they hit or toss it and run around like a female and go for all or none dodging. Of course you can try to obtain both but meh. Kind of a nice contrast between the two and I like it.

I don't like the total item dependency and yet I loved the guaranteed gain element and scaling properties of the Greensteels so much I wrote an adaptation for another MMO and have loose notes for such in D&D that look like copypasta from WoL.

I'm torn on the concept that the Cleric should toss Quickened Mass Cures in between Mass Heals because the 800HP meleers will die in a few seconds. Healing in combat is useful which is a nice change, but everyone gets locked into a grind of repeating the same actions. Melee spams attack. Healers spam cures. Oddballs spam their key trait. You know, that's the problem with MMOs in general...

As far as adapting AP, you'll end up looking like Pathfinder. Choice of minor bonuses at every level on top of a fully loaded 3.5 Class. Which means you'll get into the Pathfinder Syndrome, simply using the system makes you a power hungry mongrel.

Offline Prime32

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2013, 12:52:09 PM »
As far as adapting AP, you'll end up looking like Pathfinder. Choice of minor bonuses at every level on top of a fully loaded 3.5 Class. Which means you'll get into the Pathfinder Syndrome, simply using the system makes you a power hungry mongrel.
As I said, I'll be stripping AP out of anything I post. For instance, the Toughness feat below includes the approximate effects of Class Toughness and Racial Toughness. Prestige and Capstone enhancements will become class features, with ACFs to trade them out.



Every PC gains maximum hit points per Hit Die, and +20 hit points at 1st level.

The Total Defense action grants a +2 bonus to AC and saves, and DR/- equal to your base Fortitude save + your shield bonus to AC (if any). You gain the benefits of Evasion and Mettle, and whenever you would be subjected to a spell effect which does not require an attack roll or allow a save, you are entitled to a Reflex save to negate the effect. These bonuses do not apply if you are denied your Dex bonus to AC.

Touch attacks do not exist; all touch spells strike normal AC.

Shield Mastery [Fighter, General]
Prerequisites: Proficiency with shields
Benefit: The critical threat range of your shield bash attacks increases by 1. You gain DR/- equal to one-third your level when wielding a light shield or buckler, half your level when wielding a heavy shield, or your level when wielding a tower shield.

Improved Shield Mastery [Fighter, General]
Prerequisites: Shield Mastery, BAB +8
Benefit: The benefits of your Shield Mastery feat are doubled.

Toughness [General]
Benefit: You gain additional hit points equal to 2x (your character level + your BAB).
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 01:07:57 PM by Prime32 »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2013, 01:05:51 PM »
Oh that. Yeah I like that. All effects should scale :D

Offline Prime32

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2013, 02:52:31 PM »
Geez this thing is a murder machine...

The Will save bonuses averaged out to "good Will save +1", so I just had it replace your Will save instead.



BARBARIAN


Level
Base
Attack Bonus
Fort
Save
Ref
Save
Will
Save

Special

Rage
1st+1+2+0+0Action Boost, Fast movement, Rage 2/day+4 Str/Con, -2 AC
2nd+2+3+0+0DR 1/-, Trap Sense +1+4 Str/Con, -2 AC
3rd+3+4+1+1Trap Sense +2+4 Str/Con, -2 AC
4th+4+4+1+1DR 2/-, Rage 3/day, Uncanny Dodge+4 Str/Con, -2 AC
5th+5+4+1+1Berserker, Trap Sense +3+6 Str/Con, -4 AC
6th+6/+11+5+2+2DR 3/-, Trap Sense +4+6 Str/Con, -4 AC
7th+7/+12+5+2+2Frenzy, Rage 4/day+6 Str/Con, -4 AC
8th+8/+13+6+2+2DR 4/-, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Trap Sense +5+6 Str/Con, -4 AC
9th+9/+14+6+3+3Rampage, Trap Sense +6+6 Str/Con, -4 AC
10th+10/+15+7+3+3Ability Boost (Con +2), DR 5/-, Rage 5/day+6 Str/Con, -4 AC
11th+11/+16/+21+7+3+3Trap Sense +7+8 Str/Con, -4 AC
12th+12/+17/+22+8+4+4DR 6/-, Trap Sense +8+8 Str/Con, -4 AC
13th+13/+18/+23+8+4+4Rage 6/day+8 Str/Con, -4 AC
14th+14/+19/+24+9+4+4DR 7/-, Indomitable Will, Trap Sense +9+8 Str/Con, -4 AC
15th+15/+20/+25+9+5+5Greater Rampage, Trap Sense +10+10 Str/Con, -6 AC
16th+16/+21/+26/+31+10+5+5DR 8/-, Rage 7/day+10 Str/Con, -6 AC
17th+17/+22/+27/+32+10+5+5Tireless Rage, Trap Sense +11+10 Str/Con, -6 AC
18th+18/+23/+28/+33+11+6+6DR 9/-, Trap Sense +12+10 Str/Con, -6 AC
19th+19/+24/+29/+34+11+6+6Death Frenzy, Rage 8/day+10 Str/Con, -6 AC
20th+20/+25/+30/+35+12+6+6Ability Boost (Str +2), DR 10/-, Trap Sense +13+12 Str/Con, -6 AC

Action Boost (Ex): As a swift action, a barbarian can gain one of the following bonuses for 1 round:
  • Gain a bonus to damage rolls equal to half his barbarian level, rounded up.
  • Gain a bonus to his speed in all movement modes equal to 5ft x his barbarian level.
  • Double his Damage Reduction from barbarian levels (or gain DR 1/- if he is a 1st level barbarian).
After using this ability, he must wait 1d4+1 rounds before using it again.

Rage (Ex): In addition to the listed bonuses, a barbarian's base Will saves follow the Good progression (2 + half your character level) while raging.

Damage Reduction (Ex): You also gain energy resistance equal to half your Damage Reduction.

Berserker (Ex): At 5th level a barbarian gains Diehard as a bonus feat. His hit points cannot drop below 1 as a result of losing the bonus hit points from raging; if his hit points are already below 1 then he does not lose hit points for ending a rage.

Frenzy (Ex): At 7th level a barbarian can enter a frenzy. While in a frenzy, he gains +2 Str (stacking with rage) and his attacks gain the vicious enchantment. Entering a frenzy is a free action which inflicts 10 damage to the barbarian. The frenzy lasts for 1 minute, after which he cannot enter another frenzy for 1 minute.

Ability Boost: At 10th level a barbarian gains a +2 bonus to his Constitution score. At 20th level he gains a +2 bonus to his Strength score.

Rampage (Ex): At 9th level, whenever a barbarian rolls a 19 or 20 on an attack roll, he may make another attack as a free action. This attack is made at the same bonuses, and must be made against the same target. Attacks made as a result of Rampage cannot threaten critical hits or trigger the effects of Rampage, but ignore the effects of damage reduction and hardness.

Supreme Cleave (Ex): At 13th level, whenever a barbarian makes a melee attack he may choose for it to affect two adjacent squares within reach.

Greater Rampage (Ex): At 15th level, a barbarian may make two extra attacks as part of Rampage rather than one.

Death Frenzy (Ex): At 19th level a barbarian can enter a death frenzy. While in a death frenzy, he gains +4 Str (stacking with rage and frenzy) and his attacks deal +4d6 damage (but also 1d6 damage to himself). Entering a death frenzy is a free action which inflicts 20 damage to the barbarian. The death frenzy lasts for 1 minute, after which he cannot enter another death frenzy for 1 minute.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 03:00:19 PM by Prime32 »

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2013, 02:59:34 PM »
Having never played DDO I don't have much to add, but what I've read above is intriguing.  I think it might be best to consider the core mechanics changes, such as the DR and AC changes, before delving into particular classes.

Offline Tarkisflux

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2013, 02:03:45 PM »
Prime, are those BAB numbers right? Iterative attacks go up in bonus instead of down in DDO?  :o

Offline Garryl

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2013, 03:56:03 PM »
Prime, are those BAB numbers right? Iterative attacks go up in bonus instead of down in DDO?  :o

Maybe and yes.

DDO BAB goes up instead of down. However, DDO attack sequences are funky and based on realtime, so they don't quite map well into pen and paper. You get an "attack sequence" of two attacks at full BAB right off the bat, with a 3rd at +5 on the attack roll at BAB +1, and a 4th at +10 on the roll at BAB +3. These are just for attack bonuses (assuming you're standing still). For the number of attacks you get in a given time frame, you attack at some fixed speed, which increases at BAB +1, +5, +10, +15, and +20.

Offline Prime32

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2013, 01:20:24 PM »
A few re-interpretations here. The benefits of the original Elven Arcanum were closer to a wizard-only Spellcasting Prodigy, but this is more applicable for other classes. Elven Finesse is based on racial "+X attack/damage with weapon" enhancements. Half-drow aren't a thing in DDO, but I included the option because why not.

Most of the Dilettante options were tweaked to give better support for characters who multiclass into their Dilettante class (originally if you had, say, Sneak Attack from both rogue levels and Rogue Dilettante then you just used the higher of the two). Dilettante options for non-DDO classes are in grey.



Elf
  • +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution.
  • Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
  • Elf base land speed is 30 feet.
  • Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
  • Low-Light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
  • Arcane Fluidity: The Arcane Spell Failure chance of any armor or shield you wear is reduced by -1% per character level. If you wear both armor and a shield, this reduction is applied only once.
  • Elven Arcanum: Choose one 0th-level wizard spell; the elf may cast that spell 1/day as a wizard of his character level. At 4th level and every 3rd character level thereafter he may select another spell of one level higher, gaining the ability to cast that spell 1/day. The elf need not prepare these spells before use; if he has wizard levels then he can prepare these spells in his wizard slots from memory, as if he had the Spell Mastery feat.
  • Elven Finesse: While wielding a weapon listed in their Weapon Familiarity ability, an elf may apply his Dexterity modifier to damage rolls in place of his Strength modifier.
  • Weapon Familiarity: Elves are proficient with the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow). They may treat any exotic weapon with "elven" in its name as a martial weapon. An elf from Valenar gains proficiency with the scimitar and falchion in place of the longsword and rapier, and treats double scimitars and great falchions as martial weapons in place of elven lightblades, thinblades and courtblades.
  • Keen Senses: Whenever an elf comes within 5ft of something which could be detected with a Search check, and the DC is equal to his Search modifier +10 or lower, he automatically notices it.
  • Skills: Elves gain a +2 racial bonus to Search, Spot and Listen checks, and treat these skills as class skills for all classes.
Elf, Drow
  • +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution. Drow receive 4 fewer points than normal in Point Buy ability score generation.
  • Medium: As Medium creatures, drow have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
  • Drow base land speed is 30 feet.
  • Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial bonus on Will saves against spells and spell-like abilities.
  • Darkvision out to 120 feet.
  • Spell Resistance 10 + character level
  • Arcane Fluidity: The Arcane Spell Failure chance of any armor or shield you wear is reduced by -1% per character level. If you wear both armor and a shield, this reduction is applied only once.
  • Drow Magic: A drow with levels in a spellcasting class adds dancing lights, darkness and faerie fire to his spells known (learning dancing lights as a 1st-level spell if that class does not have access to 0th-level spells). If he has levels in a prepared spellcasting class, he may cast those spells spontaneously in the same way a cleric spontaneously casts cure spells.
  • Elven Finesse: While wielding a weapon listed in their Weapon Familiarity ability, a drow may apply his Dexterity modifier to damage rolls in place of his Strength modifier.
  • Weapon Familiarity: Drow are proficient with the hand crossbow, rapier, shortsword and shuriken. They may treat any exotic weapon with "drow" in its name as a martial weapon.
  • Keen Senses: Whenever an drow comes within 5ft of something which could be detected with a Search check, and the DC is equal to his Search modifier +10 or lower, he automatically notices it.
  • Light Blindness: Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds drow for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, they are dazzled as long as they remain in the affected area. A drow who spends at least one continuous week above ground loses this ability, but in exchange the range of his darkvision is halved; this effect may be reversed by spending one continuous week underground.
  • Skills: Drow gain a +2 racial bonus to Search, Spot and Listen checks, and treat these skills as class skills for all classes.
Half-elf
  • Medium: As Medium creatures, half-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
  • Half-elf base land speed is 30 feet.
  • Immunity to sleep spells and similar magical effects, and a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells or effects.
  • Low-Light Vision: A half-elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. Half-drow instead receive darkvision 60ft.
  • Mixed Blood: Half-elves are treated as both elves and humans. Beneficial effects treat the half-elf as whichever would be most convenient, and negative effects treat the half-elf as whichever would be least convenient.
  • Arcane Fluidity: The Arcane Spell Failure chance of any armor or shield you wear is reduced by -1% per character level. If you wear both armor and a shield, this reduction is applied only once.
  • Social Grace: Half-elves may make attempts to feint or demoralise in combat as a move action (a half-elf with the Improved Feint feat may feint as a swift action). A half-elf may make a Diplomacy or Intimidate check to change a creature's attitude as a full-round action without taking the normal penalty for rushing.
  • Dilettante: Choose one character class. You gain some of the abilities of that class, based on your character level; levels in the class itself are not counted for this purpose, nor are levels which directly advance that class's abilities (eg. a wizard 10/archmage 2/fighter 6 who selected Wizard Dilettante would be treated as a 3rd-level character for this ability). The half-elf may change the class chosen for this ability whenever he gains a character level. For more details, see the Dilettante Options section below.
  • Skills: Half-elves gain a +2 racial bonus to Diplomacy and Gather Information checks, and treat Search, Spot and Listen as class skills for all classes.

Dilettante Options
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 04:49:18 PM by Prime32 »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2013, 01:53:07 PM »
Drow seems outright better than elf, with SR, darkvision 120 feet (light blindness irrelevant because you can literally cover your path in darkness spamming the SLA every minute, and/or just keep it over yourself all the time), extra stats (as long as you focus on Dex/Int/Cha, it will be worth more than 4 points in stat buy), 3 useful SLAs right away every minute instead of one cantrip 1/day.

How does Dilettante interact with prestige classes?

Offline Prime32

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2013, 02:08:31 PM »
Drow seems outright better than elf, with SR, darkvision 120 feet (light blindness irrelevant because you can literally cover your path in darkness spamming the SLA every minute, and/or just keep it over yourself all the time), extra stats (as long as you focus on Dex/Int/Cha, it will be worth more than 4 points in stat buy), 3 useful SLAs right away every minute instead of one cantrip 1/day.
True. I guess that's why it's one of the races you have to pay to unlock. :P DDO has no lighting rules, and didn't give drow SLAs or access to Arcane Archer. The SLAs are iconic though, so they should be in there in some form...

Quote
How does Dilettante interact with prestige classes?
That's... tricky, since DDO doesn't have PrCs. :huh Restricting spellcasters is easy enough, but there are still ways to partially double up on, say, sneak attack progression. Mind, you could do that in DDO already, since rogue wasn't the only way to get sneak attack, and it doesn't seem too overpowered.

*edits*
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 02:22:02 PM by Prime32 »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2013, 05:52:17 PM »
In DDO none of the helf's Dilettantes stack with Class Features of the same type.
IE Rogue Dilettante II (+3d6) will stack with Sneak Attack +5 (+5 att & +8 dmg) & Monk's Ninja Spy II (+3d6), which is a very nice combo btw, but Rogue 10 (5d6) and Rogue Dilettante II (+3d6) deals 5d6 Sneak Attack.

Quote
Damage Reduction (Ex): You also gain energy resistance equal to half your Damage Reduction.
Infinite loop, your computer has crashed.

Also I think you're better off adapting the entire system rather than pure level by level remakes. You already have the goal to do all the Classes & Races, so really create an Enhancement adaptation and package the entire thing as a system. Plus using the AP adaptation you'll be able to handle Epic Destines as well.
(click to show/hide)

If I wasn't so backlogged, I'd post an adaptation of the Artificer. It was my next little project after the Monk but never finished it.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 06:50:38 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Prime32

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2013, 07:00:19 PM »
In DDO none of the helf's Dilettantes stack with Class Features of the same type.
IE Rogue Dilettante II (+3d6) will stack with Sneak Attack +5 (+5 att & +8 dmg) & Monk's Ninja Spy II (+3d6), which is a very nice combo btw, but Rogue 10 (5d6) and Rogue Dilettante II (+3d6) deals 5d6 Sneak Attack.
Yeah I know. I just wanted to simplify things and make them a little less counter-intuitive.

On Enhancements, I hear there's an overhaul coming up anyway.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2013, 09:20:45 AM »
Yeah, layout will change to match the ED screen. It's easier to read at a glance.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2013, 03:10:51 PM »
Bladeforged Iconic
(click to show/hide)

What is it?
Turbine's new f*ck you. Instead of the tedious coding and all those additions it takes to support a new race or class, Turbine is creating the Iconics. It's a certain race/class combo that in all ways counts as the specified race/class but gets a couple extra bonuses so you'll spend money on them. Bladeforged Paladin was just released last Wednesday, and I have to admit they look frigging awesome. Plus Warforged Paladins were a big no-no, Cha penalty, Cure Wounds sucks on Warforged, and so on. WotC's WF ACF tries to help some by allowing full Lay on Hands healing but repalces Cha to Saves with Con to Will only. You just can't operate as a Warforged Paladin without sawing your leg off so a "paladin fix' for Warforged is more than welcome. Anyway, here is a quick write up for D&D.

Bladeforged Paladin
The Lord of Blades used the creation forge to create the next generation of Warforged protectors. These Forged beings, aptly named Bladeforged, have a studier stockier frame that makes them tougher than the standard Warforged model. Perhaps the greatest improvement is their force of will and personality is stronger than before allowing them to more easily channel their Lord of Blades faith based powers.
Prerequisites: Warforged Paladin 1st.
Benefits:
* Bladeforged have a stronger will and personality built into a more bulky frame, replace your -2 Charisma penalty with a -2 penalty to Dexterity.
* This stronger frame is also resistant to sharp blades, you gain DR X/Bludgeoning or Piercing where X is 1/2 your effective Paladin level with Smite Evil.
* Unfortunately this more mechanical frame does have draw backs, Spells from the Healing Subschool are treated as if their caster level was four levels lower when affecting you.
* As part of the Lord of Blades religion a Bladeforged Paladin can innately channel repair magic, add the Repair line of Spells up to the 4th level to your Paladin Spell List.
* And finally The Lord of Blades him self empowers your Aura of Good, it now additionally grants you and allies within 10ft gain a +2 Sacred bonus to AC and a +1 Sacred bonus to Saves.
Evil Bladeforged Paladin Variant: your Aura of Evil grants the same bonuses but they are Profane based, additionally your damage reduction is based on your effective Paladin level with Smite Good.

Enjoy.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 03:19:24 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Prime32

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2013, 03:39:36 PM »
You could also add a note that warforged juggernauts get armor blades instead of armor spikes. :p

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2013, 05:16:14 PM »
Sadly the blades are purely cosmetic :(

I'd be awesome if even +1d4 slashing damage was granted on Unarmed Attacks. :D

Offline Prime32

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2013, 06:12:33 PM »
Sadly the blades are purely cosmetic :(
IIRC there were some standard warforged with cosmetic spikes too? And DDO doesn't have warforged juggernauts anyway (at least, not right now). I know there was an ability in some splat or Dragon mag which let WJs upgrade their spikes to deal 1d8 slashing damage.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2013, 06:47:44 PM »
Yes/No.

The spikes you see on the Bladeforged are Cosmetic Armors. Bladeforged get two kits Bound-to-Character. Without the Cosmetic Armor Kit applied they have a smooth body that is trumped by the default appearance of their armor.

And in the default appearances none are overtly spiky.
(click to show/hide)

Also you may be thinking of Armor Razors, from Underdark.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 06:50:59 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Prime32

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Re: Mechanics from DDO
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2013, 07:01:45 PM »
Also you may be thinking of Armor Razors, from Underdark.
Nah, it wasn't an item. I think it was an additional Blade Communion Ritual (Faiths of Eberron p113) from a Dragon article.

As for Iconics, if this really makes it easier for them to add races then I'm just hoping they take the opportunity to release kalashtar as human/monks. :p
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