Riverside View

[oslecamo]

And they use necromancy. And destroy souls for combat power. /trollmarisaface.jpg 

[Raineh Daze]

They're also LN and perform one of the main shinigami jobs (there's got to be more making immortal things die than ferrying. @_@). So eh.

[Anomander]

Necromancy isn't an issue. Necromancy is magic mostly dealing with life and death, which is thematic. They are not raising undead creatures, though.

They are able to contain souls and destroy them. Yep.
It seems from their profile that unless they are of the more evil-natured they are pretty radical when it comes to how they handle those who disrupt the delicate balance of life. Sounds like a middle ground between our shinigamis, and what more, they are actually the shinigami and can fit the idea of the Touhou shinigami.

Anyway, the idea that I'm pushing for is just to have the shinigami reinstated as the source of the discipline and Komachi's race. Don't mind whether or not it is attached to a shinigami monster race, a psychopomp monster race or even a yugoloth monster race. As long as the Touhou shinigami are not kicked out of the Touhou project to be entirely replaced by something that isn't in the Touhou project.

[oslecamo]

You know, I just realized we probably hit the reverse situation of your hopping vampire/Yoshika Miyako‎.

Namewise she's a Jiangshi. But the way she acts, she's actually a western zombie.

Same for Komachi. Namewise she's the shinigami tasked with ferrying the death across the Sanzy river.

But guess what? There aren't ferrymen on the Sanzy river! In the oriental folklore, either you cross it by a bridge (if you were a nice guy) or try to swim across it (if you were evil, and in which case chances are that you get nommed by aquatic dragons).

So touhou shinigamis are again a western legend dressed up as an oriental one. Komachi is the ferrymen of the river Styx, asking for coin to pay the passage and everything. Boats and money and simply never involved in "typical shinigami" folklore, but they're key parts of touhou shinigamis.

Bottom point being, "typical shinigami" aren't the origin of touhou shinigami. Greedy ferrymen  of the River Styx with boats are.

[Raineh Daze]

Actually, 'typical' shinigami don't really exist. They're a product of western communication with Japan and are actually based off the Grim Reaper. So really, they're related to this guy.

But yeah, it doesn't perfectly match Buddhist cosmology.

On the other hand, Charon wasn't evil, and the only payment that he needs is two coins.

[oslecamo]

Two coins was quite a bit of money on ancient greece. Meawnhile the ferrymen don't only have to deal with inflation but also with a lot more workload and bureaucracy, so it just makes sense Komachi is charging enough nowadays to be able to use it as danmaku. Keep up with the times, will you?

Also Hades was declared evil in Deities and Demigods (altough "not particularly malicious or hateful towards mortals"), and Charon is one of his servants if I remember correctly.

[Raineh Daze]

And? That's kinda ridiculous, seeing as Hades doesn't really qualify as evil. Hell, Poseidon is much more of a jerk.

So 'one function of the shinigami is based on the servant of a Greek God' does not make them evil (or justify it) because the D&D writers decided God of the Underworld (not death, that's Thanatos) = Evil. That's torturing logic.

[oslecamo]

And Zeus is the jerkest of them all, screwing with everyone he meets in one way or the other.

Either way, D&D basically considers that if you're dealing with the dead in any way but bringing them back to life, you're evil. Deathwatch only checks up the condition of a person/corpse, and that's enough to make it count as evil after all.

[Raineh Daze]

Forgotten Realms, Kelemvor. Started NG, moved to... TN? Or was it LN?

Anyway, 'processing the dead' moves all over the place. Ensuring everything doesn't all go to hell is the purpose of the Inevitables, though, so making sure the universe doesn't implode is LN...

[Anomander]

You know, I just realized we probably hit the reverse situation of your hopping vampire/Yoshika Miyako‎.

Namewise she's a Jiangshi. But the way she acts, she's actually a western zombie

The Jiangshi are interpreted as some kind of vampire and some kind of zombie. The one from Oriental Adventure focused on the vampire interpretation by calling it a vampire, not a Jiangshi. Recognizing this, I destroyed my Jiangshi since the Hopping Vampire wasn't appropriate and I already had a zombie done.

There is no name issue here.

Bottom point being, "typical shinigami" aren't the origin of touhou shinigami. Greedy ferrymen of the River Styx with boats are.

You mean the Sanzu River. And your statement is also an inaccurate generalization. The ferryman shinigami are but one branch of them all.
Typical "yugoloth" aren't the origin of the touhou shinigami either if that actually concerns you, but you already admitted that they really didn't fit the Touhou shinigami by having them get replaced by the yugoloth in 'the future'.

Bottom point is that it doesn't matter. I said I don't care what race is what. What matters is the Touhou terminology. Touhou calls them shinigami. Call them shinigami. Use whatever monster you want as a shinigami from there, it doesn't matter.
Otherwise you might as well replace all references to the Lunarians with the name of some Dnd monster and perverse the whole thing while you're at it.

If you want to ignore terminology and insist on using something else, I still left you some points on why those yugoloths aren't the right ones for that. If you really want a direct connection to a monster class with a boat that takes payments, no matter what that monster is, might as well go with that shinigami monster.
It is CR17 and really doesn't have much to fill them. Some are already far from against taking bribes so dumping a boat ability in there, especially if it is optional to represent that not all shinigami have the ferrymen job, then it is easy to make it fit your vision of the thing. Sort of how you gave the yugoloth a soul explosion trick it didn't normally have.

[veekie]

After reading more on her I guess you're right. There is a necromancy vibe to her but she doesn't really fit the typical necromancer profile.
She also sounds like a pretty nice person as for as Touhou characters go.

The necromancy vibe is pretty much just standing Bakeneko lore. They can animate corpses, often by jumping over the graves/coffins, and supposedly steal them that way.

[Raineh Daze]

After reading more on her I guess you're right. There is a necromancy vibe to her but she doesn't really fit the typical necromancer profile.
She also sounds like a pretty nice person as for as Touhou characters go.

The necromancy vibe is pretty much just standing Bakeneko lore. They can animate corpses, often by jumping over the graves/coffins, and supposedly steal them that way.

Orin is a Kasha, specifically. Her mythological role is, quite literally, 'make off with corpses before they're cremated'. Not using necromancy--just outright running off with it. So...

[oslecamo]

By making Nitori a mecha pilot, Anomander has pretty much just sinked all of his own arguments here. Shame because he was actually almost convincing me to replace the yugoloth references with shinigami monster whitout boat or money #6871. But now screw that, if Nitori gets to be turned into a professional pilot, Komachi most certainly retains her job as the paid ferrywoman of the River Styx.

[Raineh Daze]

What.

You're going to make something remain deliberately wrong because another school, which is incomplete... uses a mechanic from the super robots? Hint: you made a non-SRW class that can do this perfectly fine. Lunar Vanguard. And 'professional pilot' is stretching it when it's anything  born out of the Super Robot school.

[veekie]

Being wrong/right about one thing doesn't really relate to being wrong/right about another, other than as an ad hominem argument.

[Anomander]

You're hilarious.
Your arguments just keep getting worse.

If you even read what little is made in Candid Friend, you'd see I didn't say anywhere that Nitori was a mecha pilot.
Pilots, mecha and so on are only present in the mechanics, which goes well with Nitori as featured in Hopeless Masquerade.
Her bag makes her fly with some kind of gyrocopter contraption, has mechanical punches, missile launchers and other goodies, like some kind of bag-nanoarmor and two of her spellcards, including Battle Machine "Fly! Sanpei Fight, makes her actually pilot some kind of small war-vehicle.
I respect that she may not be an actual pilot in my references while using her mechanics in my maneuver mechanics.


Now how about you fix your stuff and stop waiting for the next diversion.

[oslecamo]

8th level maneuvers/stance added.

[ketaro]

The Death's Due for Game of Soul is struck through instead of underlined

[oslecamo]

Fixed, thanks.

[oslecamo]

Uff, 9th level maneuver and stance added! Now to add some Komachi pictures.