Author Topic: General Discussion and Sugestions  (Read 205420 times)

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #440 on: May 22, 2014, 07:43:48 AM »
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Thus penalties to make up for all that extra stuff. Making a monster take the same amount of levels than their CR is the core foundation of this project.
That'd be fine if the penalties made up for it. They do not.
Another important part of this project is to "Cut down most abuseable abilities to keep the power level in check".
When an ability is too strong for the level at which it can get it, what we do is usually dumb it down or give a significant penalty to compensate.
Like a fire immunity being reduced to a fire resistance until a point or not at all. It can be scaled until the level is appropriate for it or sometimes it doesn't even get the ability at all to make space for all the other good stuff.

Progression trough HD isn't reserved for things that go completely out of scale. You yourself encourage using it it for about half the abilities gained so here's another opportunity to use it.

Quote
Just because you consider 10 a dump stat, doesn't mean that you can't tank it even further down. Starting with a base undead class easily allows you to squeeze an extra +2 or +4 to your other ability scores over a template undead class.
Doesn't change my point: "One level in an undead/construct template and you're set. No real multiclassing restriction. No real counterbalance either."
Having your Con at 10 to no longer have to worry about it isn't a counterbalance. I do not see how one can even imagine that it is. The ability pointbuy system speaks for itself.

Offline M3mentoMori

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #441 on: May 25, 2014, 12:16:53 AM »
The Corruptor Initiate ability of the Succubus class seems to contradict itself. The first several lines seem to suggest that your effective spellcasting class level is Succubus levels + caster levels: If I was a Succubus 3/Sorcerer 1, as in the example, I'd cast as a Sorcerer 4 (knowing 6/3/1 spells and able to cast 6/6/3 spells.)). But the second to last line ("She wouldn't get the spell knowns and spell slots of a sorceror 3 however") seems to say that you would just have a caster level of a Sorcerer 4. Which way is it supposed to be?

My apologies if this isn't the right place to post this.

Offline Daedroth

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #442 on: May 25, 2014, 05:17:15 AM »
The Corruptor Initiate ability of the Succubus class seems to contradict itself. The first several lines seem to suggest that your effective spellcasting class level is Succubus levels + caster levels: If I was a Succubus 3/Sorcerer 1, as in the example, I'd cast as a Sorcerer 4 (knowing 6/3/1 spells and able to cast 6/6/3 spells.)). But the second to last line ("She wouldn't get the spell knowns and spell slots of a sorceror 3 however") seems to say that you would just have a caster level of a Sorcerer 4. Which way is it supposed to be?

My apologies if this isn't the right place to post this.

Read the FAQ, if you can't understand it, its easeier than it seems.
You have the spells known of a Sorcerer 4 minus the spells known of a Sorcerer 3 (1/0/1), if you are a Succubus 4/Sorcerer 2 (In that order) you know the spells known of a Sorcerer 6 minus de spells known of a Sorcerer 4 (1/1/1/1). The same applies to the daily spells.
You also have a CL of 4 and 6 in each case.
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Offline Leviathan

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #443 on: May 25, 2014, 05:54:00 AM »
In effect, levels of Succubus let you "skip" levels of Sorcerer: instead of the increase in spellcasting concomitant with Sorcerer 1, you get the spellcasting that comes with going from Sorcerer 3 to Sorcerer 4, but not the benefits you would have gained from the three levels you jumped over.

This "pseudocasting" is one of the least intuitive and hardest to explain parts of this project. Suggestion: Instead of each class giving a brief and confusing description, what if the classes just said "this class grants pseudocasting for <whatever classes>", with a link to a complete definition of pseudocasting, with full examples and rules text that is as unambiguous as possible? That way, classes could be made slightly shorter, there would be fewer opportunities for copypasta errors in boilerplate text, and the rules would be clearer. If anyone else thinks this is worthwhile, I can draft a proposal for the pseudocasting definition after I get some sleep.

Offline Rakoa

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #444 on: May 25, 2014, 04:31:40 PM »
I'd like to propose the Wight for a bit of an overhaul. It might just be me being crazy, but it seems a tad lackluster to me. I don't think it has stood up to the tests of time.
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Offline M3mentoMori

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #445 on: May 25, 2014, 05:34:08 PM »


Read the FAQ, if you can't understand it, its easeier than it seems.
You have the spells known of a Sorcerer 4 minus the spells known of a Sorcerer 3 (1/0/1), if you are a Succubus 4/Sorcerer 2 (In that order) you know the spells known of a Sorcerer 6 minus de spells known of a Sorcerer 4 (1/1/1/1). The same applies to the daily spells.
You also have a CL of 4 and 6 in each case.
[/quote]

The FAQ doesn't seem to have anything directly addressing this. I checked it before I posted. Though now that I look again, there is a table for spells gained.

Thanks for the explanation, though. It's still quite confusing.

So I get the spells known of a Sorcerer X (Where X is the sum of my succubus and sorcerer levels), minus the spells known and spells per day of a sorcerer Y (Where Y is my succubus level)?

@Leviathan: That makes more sense. Thanks.

Offline Daedroth

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #446 on: May 26, 2014, 02:53:17 PM »

So I get the spells known of a Sorcerer X (Where X is the sum of my succubus and sorcerer levels), minus the spells known and spells per day of a sorcerer Y (Where Y is my succubus level)?


Yep
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #447 on: May 27, 2014, 10:05:57 AM »
This "pseudocasting" is one of the least intuitive and hardest to explain parts of this project. Suggestion: Instead of each class giving a brief and confusing description, what if the classes just said "this class grants pseudocasting for <whatever classes>", with a link to a complete definition of pseudocasting, with full examples and rules text that is as unambiguous as possible? That way, classes could be made slightly shorter, there would be fewer opportunities for copypasta errors in boilerplate text, and the rules would be clearer. If anyone else thinks this is worthwhile, I can draft a proposal for the pseudocasting definition after I get some sleep.
Considering that FireInTheSky's index will help me find the relevant monsters, on my part I would be willing to edit a clearer ruling in if you wrote it down.

I'd like to propose the Wight for a bit of an overhaul. It might just be me being crazy, but it seems a tad lackluster to me. I don't think it has stood up to the tests of time.
Noted. Want to finish the  Reaver overhaul before looking at that.

Offline Stricture

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #448 on: May 30, 2014, 12:34:20 PM »
A question. In the FAQ section concerning extra HD it says:

"
    I see a lot of abilities based on HD. Do they count extra HD such as the ones from Bardic Inspiration?
   No. Count only your class HD for any ability that is based on HD, not from any other source.

"

Does this refer to only the class HD from the actual monster class that gave you the ability?
Or does it refer to the total sum of HD that the character has gained through gaining levels in classes?

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #449 on: May 30, 2014, 12:37:07 PM »
A question. In the FAQ section concerning extra HD it says:

"
    I see a lot of abilities based on HD. Do they count extra HD such as the ones from Bardic Inspiration?
   No. Count only your class HD for any ability that is based on HD, not from any other source.

"

Does this refer to only the class HD from the actual monster class that gave you the ability?
Or does it refer to the total sum of HD that the character has gained through gaining levels in classes?

Sum of all HD from classes.

Since the entire point of this is to do away with RHD and LA, I'm not sure why they're not just based off character level instead.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #450 on: May 30, 2014, 01:09:42 PM »
Because not ever being able to understand what Wotc exactly means with "character level" was one of the reasons I started this whole thing.  :p

And yes, all permanent HD count towards your abilities that say they work out of HD.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #451 on: May 30, 2014, 01:13:17 PM »
Because not ever being able to understand what Wotc exactly means with "character level" was one of the reasons I started this whole thing.  :p

And yes, all permanent HD count towards your abilities that say they work out of HD.

Sum of class levels. ECL is adding LA and RHD onto that. :lmao

Offline Stricture

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #452 on: May 30, 2014, 01:34:31 PM »
Thank you, some more questions.

Even the pit fiends summoning? and its invisibility scaling?

they say:

"
Invisibility:as a SLA 1/day for each HD. At 6 HD See Invisibility, Invisibility Purge and other such anti-invisibility effects except True Seeing don't bypass the Pit Fiend's invisibility unless the observer is whitin 10 feet. At 14 HD not even True Seeing bypasses it unless the observer is whitin 10 feet of the creature/object subject to Invisibility.
"

and

"
Summon Devil:Twice per day as a standard action, the Pit fiend can summon reinforcments, depending on its HD:

3HD:2 lemures
5 HD: 4 lemures
8HD:2 bearded devils or 8 lemures
10HD: 1 Erinyes or 4 bearded devils or 16 lemures
12HD:2 Bone Devils or 2 erinyes or 8 bearded devils or 32 lemures
14HD: 1 Ice Devil, or three bone devils, or three erinyes, or 16 bearded devils or 64 lemures.
18HD: 1 Horned Devil, or two ice devils, or eight bone devils, or eight erinyes, or 32 bearded devils, or 128 lemures.
20HD: two horned devils, or four Ice Devils, or sixteen Bone Devils, or Sixteen Erinyes, or 64 Bearded Devils, or 256 Lemures.
"


How about the entries refering to levels? Take the Ak'Chazar Rakshasas spellcasting? It says:

"
At 2nd level the  Rakshasa, Ak'Chazar becomes able to cast as a sorcerer of 4/5 his level (thus advancing this casting at every level but 6th and 11th, for a total of 12th level sorcerer casting at 15th level).
"

I assume that it refers to levels in the Ak'Chazar Rakshasa class and not character level.
In other words, the spellcasting progression is tied to the class progression and not the the characters level progression.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #453 on: May 30, 2014, 01:39:29 PM »
1) Yes, even the Pit Fiend stuff. The aim is to have racial classes that are useful at all levels, rather than being good at the level you start playing but a bunch of dead features at level 20. Imagine you're a Pit Fiend 3/Warblade 17 (for some reason): what possible use is summoning a pair of Lemures going to be at that level?

2) Levels refers to levels in the class, yes.

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #454 on: May 30, 2014, 01:55:08 PM »
Quote from: RD
Sum of class levels. ECL is adding LA and RHD onto that.
Almost.  :)
Quote from: PHB
Character Level: "Character level" is a character's total number of levels. It is used to determine when feats and ability score boosts are gained.
Although the definition can be confusing, its purpose is clear: its what determines when feats and ability score boosts are gained.
LA does not contribute to that end, but racial HD does.
Therefor, Character Level is the sum of all racial HD, class levels, and whatever other kind of level counts to determine when you get your feat and ability score boosts.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #455 on: May 30, 2014, 02:01:57 PM »
Forgot RHD added to feats. Which is stupid, since that's where monsters get feats. :lmao

Offline Leviathan

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #456 on: July 24, 2014, 01:27:48 AM »
Several of the dragon classes (and possibly others) say this about their fly speeds:
Quote
The maneuverability doesn't increase naturaly, but players can take the Savage Species feat that increases it by two steps(stackable).

I looked in Savage Species, and I couldn't find this feat. There is a feat called Improved Flight, found in Complete Adventurer and Races of the Wild, which only increases maneuverability by one step.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #457 on: July 24, 2014, 06:40:06 PM »
You seem to be completely right. And it just took some three years for people to notice! Will see about fixing it tommorrow.

If you had any monster request pending, I would do it next as a reward for pointing it out, but it seems like you never asked for anything. Anything specific you would like to see done next? :p

Offline Leviathan

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #458 on: July 24, 2014, 07:38:47 PM »
I'm not picky, but I do like swarms.

Offline Rakoa

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #459 on: July 24, 2014, 08:05:50 PM »
I think Hellwasp is the only swarm in the index. Somethin' fresh 'n fun could be cool.
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