Author Topic: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood  (Read 301672 times)

Offline Kuroimaken

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5348
  • No obstacle too great for the FLAMES IN MY HEART!!
    • View Profile
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #540 on: November 13, 2012, 07:38:50 AM »
A random question for y'all: How do you feel about loli fanservice as compared to adult fanservice?
Honestly? A little disgusted. Mostly because something's lacking.
Kami darou ga akuma darou ga, ore no michi ni tateru mono NASHI!!

Give me internets. Now.

Offline SorO_Lost

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7197
  • Banned
    • View Profile
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #541 on: November 13, 2012, 11:00:50 AM »
Fanservice sucks.

I mean, it's an awesome idea don't get me wrong. favorite anima chick has decent nudy pics without having to google them like a deranged pervert. Spiffy.

Problem is, some shows cater them selves solely out of that. Take Needless for example. Blue Mage hero with a loli fetish with a couple of tag-alongs in a religious X-Men world. The Manga plays things for laughs mostly showing it's panty shots are part of splash pages of a super awesome attack or done in a subtle way, like;
(click to show/hide)
Anima? Panty shot every 15 seconds with out of place lingering durations on underwear. Same scenes above would probably show it in two angles (between the legs of each) and zoom in in case you missed it. I could be wrong on that part, but they really do go out of there way to add even more panty shots than the manga already has >.>

It's the same with High School DxD. The light novels have very little pictures and like Needless plays the pervert card for humor. when adapted to Anima, even the opening flashing nudity at you repeatedly. Loli vs adult aside, I'm not here to watch naked cartoons. There is a line between pervert jokes, and STARE AY MY FRACKING UNDERWEAR SOME MORE and I wish they would remember that.

Offline veekie

  • Spinner of Fortunes
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5423
  • Chaos Dice
    • View Profile
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #542 on: November 13, 2012, 11:30:20 AM »
Fanservice is fanservice, no matter the size. It's just candy on top of plot, if it has no plot, then it remains empty(though no doubt good for merchandising), if it has too much candy, it detracts from other interesting aspects of the show.

Size doesn't matter really. Not in animated/drawn media.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline oslecamo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #543 on: November 13, 2012, 05:53:09 PM »

Offline Nicklance

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 286
  • Strongest!
    • View Profile
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #544 on: November 14, 2012, 06:16:40 AM »
A random question for y'all: How do you feel about loli fanservice as compared to adult fanservice?
Honestly? A little disgusted. Mostly because something's lacking.

*looks around*

Loli fanservice is better than adult fanservice, but only because typical adult fanservice disgusts me with their overly-sized backbone snapping melons of disgust.
Will add later

Offline littha

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2952
  • +1 Holy Muffin
    • View Profile
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #545 on: November 14, 2012, 07:11:47 AM »
You know something is wrong with an anime if breasts < Head

Offline oslecamo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #546 on: November 14, 2012, 02:54:05 PM »
A random question for y'all: How do you feel about loli fanservice as compared to adult fanservice?
Honestly? A little disgusted. Mostly because something's lacking.

*looks around*

Loli fanservice is better than adult fanservice, but only because typical adult fanservice disgusts me with their overly-sized backbone snapping melons of disgust.

So what do you think of Cleo Zaubraff? Biggest melons in Break Blade, yet only 12 years old.

Offline Kuroimaken

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5348
  • No obstacle too great for the FLAMES IN MY HEART!!
    • View Profile
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #547 on: November 14, 2012, 03:37:17 PM »
For a moment I could swear you were talking about Queen's Blade. *nightmares of Maitreya abound*
Kami darou ga akuma darou ga, ore no michi ni tateru mono NASHI!!

Give me internets. Now.

Offline Nicklance

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 286
  • Strongest!
    • View Profile
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #548 on: November 14, 2012, 05:01:06 PM »
A random question for y'all: How do you feel about loli fanservice as compared to adult fanservice?
Honestly? A little disgusted. Mostly because something's lacking.

*looks around*

Loli fanservice is better than adult fanservice, but only because typical adult fanservice disgusts me with their overly-sized backbone snapping melons of disgust.

So what do you think of Cleo Zaubraff? Biggest melons in Break Blade, yet only 12 years old.

Considered an adult with a body like that, and yes I would not define it as loli.
Will add later

Offline veekie

  • Spinner of Fortunes
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5423
  • Chaos Dice
    • View Profile
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #549 on: November 18, 2012, 10:06:00 AM »
Well, with it being a drawn medium, mentality and behaviour might be a bigger factor than actual body layout, considering that asians already look a few years younger by default, and the mix of immortal, supernatural and ageless creatures that also happen to look like children(or artificial beings that look like adults).


Or better yet. Don't think too hard about it, just sit back and enjoy the show. Or another show.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline Halinn

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2067
  • My personal text is impersonal.
    • View Profile
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #550 on: November 18, 2012, 10:32:10 AM »
For a drawn medium:
Bagillion year old vampire that looks like a 9-year old? Loli
12-year old (as an informed attribute) that looks like a 20-year old? Not loli.

Offline brujon

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2554
  • Insufferable Fool
    • View Profile
    • My Blog (in PT-BR)
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #551 on: November 18, 2012, 06:06:56 PM »
Loli fanservice is borderline child pornography. Even the Japanese government is being forcefully made aware of that. Now, the only way to get loli hentai is if the author calls it something like a 900 year old vampire who got turned at the age of 9, or some girl who has a sickness so that she doesn't age physically. But everyone knows, that's semantics. There are manga authors on Japan that really do go out of their ways to introduce child-like but sexy characters to appeal to the loli public, and the simple fact that something like loli fanservice has to be included in any type of media *at all* for it's increased success, is in and of itself, an indication that something has gone horribly wrong.

Me? I'm a regular guy. I like Jailbait, i really do. For me, personally, a well developed girl is very attractive. But that's ONLY BECAUSE THE GODDAMN GIRL LOOKS LIKE A GROWN UP ADULT WOMAN! I'm not attracted to her age, i'm attracted to her tits, her butt, and her curves. Anyone who says they're not attracted to some of the 15 or the 16 year olds you see walking out there on the street every day is lying their teeth off, especially because those very girls are going out of their way to dress like sluts and give men aneurysms. They're growing up faster, and it shows. They want to be noticed, so you notice them, and that's biology 101.

And that's the case with regular fanservice... Like every other ecchi manga, like Highschool of the Dead, for example, just to shine a very well known example. But manga and anime have been getting more and more of loli fanservice... And *why* that is, and the answer to that question, is the key of the matter.

I'll give you one example of a very well executed anime who would have gone well with a slightly older female lead: Shakugan no Shana. The whole story is brilliant. The characters are good, and the story itself is good as well. But she LOOKS like a 10 year old. Granted, there's little to no fanservice on Shakugan no Shana, but there's the romance between her and Yuji, and it could've been much more fleshed out if they were a little bit older, at least. The on-off playground-like romance between them is SO out of sync with the entire PLOT of the series it's not even funny. I mean, they're just little kids, but they're fighting a frikken war, people dying left and right, they even kill a bunch... But they STILL can switch off from war-mode to 10-year-old-doesn't-know-anything-better mode?

It's bull. And it's even more bull that she's what? 500 years old?

Screw that. If you put a child in a situation like that, you'd have them growing up FAST. Maybe not physically, but psychologically? Fuck yeah. Just look at the child soldiers in war-ridden Africa and Asia. They shoot to kill, they rape, they steal, they smoke and they drink, and when you look deep in their eyes, there's no child there anymore. Of course, that's too bleak to go mainstream... But the opposite is just as bad. A child that can just switch from blast-this-guys-head-off-with-shotgun to i-don't-know-how-to-talk-to-girls in 10 seconds flat is just silly.

I like fanservice in moderate amounts, and i've defended that much already. I think sexuality is a part of human nature, and any fiction that aspires to be truly great has to explore that facet of humankind. But loli... That ain't normal. It's not a part of human sexuality. It's part of a sick twisted fetish.

So i refuse to watch loli hentai... But then what? There's awesome anime out there that have loli fanservice in them. It's not explicit enough to get them labeled as hentai, but it's out there. It should end. Fuck that.

While i'm on a roll here, i should also add why that shit should end once and for all: It gives sick people a way to fantasize even more about their sick twisted fetishes. If they don't get excited enough from it already, they watch more stuff, and then they do get excited enough, and they go look for it on the real world. Labelling it a normal behavior let's them abstract it and justify child porn, and child rape, and whatnot. Sure 99% of the people who watch it don't go and act on their wishes, but what about those who do?

And what about the effect it has on courtrooms? People actually *do* argue in court that shit like that influenced them... That they shouldn't be held accountable because it's so mainstream on their society, etc. etc... And in some cases, they let some shit pass.

Like the overwhelming hornyness japan has on schoolgirls. How many teachers act on their desires on their students because there's over 9000 mangas out there that encourage just that? That actually defend it as true love and shit?

I grew out of being an otaku a long, long time ago. I do enjoy anime like i always did, but i'm no longer into the culture, because that culture is a tad fucked up for me.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 06:12:20 PM by brujon »
"All the pride and pleasure of the world, mirrored in the dull consciousness of a fool, are poor indeed compared with the imagination of Cervantes writing his Don Quixote in a miserable prison" - Schopenhauer, Aphorisms: The Wisdom of Life

Offline Kuroimaken

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5348
  • No obstacle too great for the FLAMES IN MY HEART!!
    • View Profile
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #552 on: November 18, 2012, 07:42:04 PM »
Come on, brujon, you know the answer to all that.

And the answer is motherfucking sexual reppression.

Do you know the term onnagata? It refers to male players acting out female roles in theater. Do you know how it got started? Brothels started putting up theater shows and putting women in more and more arousing situations to showcase their whores. It was the borderline animated porn of the time. The government eventually got all over that and forbade female actresses in theater.

Tentacle rape? Goes as far back as sumi-e paintings of a woman pleasing herself with her husband's catch of the day (an octopus). Essentially the great-great-grandfather of porn manga.

Anyone who's seen hentai and Japanese AV noticed censorship, despite the material already being marketed exclusively for adults. Why? Because some retarded fuck-up who raped and killed a bunch of kiddies waaaaaay back in the fifties happened to have dozens of porn mags lying around in his home. The public went up and said "ban that shit!" and the government met them halfway. So they made a law that stated one could not display the sexual organs or pubic hair of an adult in any sort of recorded media. Except they also had this law lying around that goes that at age 13 you own your fucking body (basically age of consent law on steroids). The logical conclusion, supply meets demand where girls with no cash (and potentially less scruples) go into porn or prostitution or sell their used underwear to satisfy nasty old (er?) men. (And some of the women too, cuz let's face it, men aren't the only ones who get horny.)

Also worth noting, the Japanese are INCREDIBLY reserved about romance. Ever wonder why not even the boldest guy or girl in a romance anime or manga goes for a PDA and a mere hug seems to make a guy look as if he was under the sun for twelve hours with no sunblock? Yeah, there is that. It gets bad enough that there was a backwater city that was so concerned about the declining rate of marriages that they sponsored public blind dates.

So... yeah. Before you get "rid" of loli, you need to get rid of a few centuries of social sexual reppression. Which the Japanese don't even recognize they have. In their minds, sluttiness is something that comes from other cultures.
Kami darou ga akuma darou ga, ore no michi ni tateru mono NASHI!!

Give me internets. Now.

Offline oslecamo

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10080
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #553 on: November 18, 2012, 08:00:55 PM »
So... yeah. Before you get "rid" of loli, you need to get rid of a few centuries of social sexual reppression. Which the Japanese don't even recognize they have. In their minds, sluttiness is something that comes from other cultures.

Not exactly. They have diferent sexual culture. Some things that we consider aceptable nowadays they indeed "supress", but at the same time there's others that they're pretty ok with and the ocidental world is still kinda freaked out about.

Brothels for starters. In Japan they were always a lot more open and respected. It's actually a recorded fact that european ambassadors would be  shown to the local top brothels as they would be pointed out to other important landmarks.

Japan was also the place of origin of love-hotels (currently producing double the profit of all anime out there combined).

They're also a lot more open to simple nakedness (open baths and stuff).

But public shows of affection (kissing, hugging) is indeed something that is still considered "extreme" by their culture.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 08:03:42 PM by oslecamo »

Offline Kuroimaken

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5348
  • No obstacle too great for the FLAMES IN MY HEART!!
    • View Profile
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #554 on: November 18, 2012, 09:08:35 PM »
Feels almost like we're playing a game of "who's the pervert now", doesn't it?
Kami darou ga akuma darou ga, ore no michi ni tateru mono NASHI!!

Give me internets. Now.

Offline veekie

  • Spinner of Fortunes
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5423
  • Chaos Dice
    • View Profile
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #555 on: November 18, 2012, 11:08:45 PM »
Everyone is a pervert. It's just how they show it.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline 123456789blaaa

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ***
  • Posts: 623
  • Not very active here but still active online
    • View Profile
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #556 on: November 19, 2012, 04:21:20 PM »
Everyone is a pervert. It's just how they show it.

Exactly
Please, call me Count :).

Offline Halinn

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2067
  • My personal text is impersonal.
    • View Profile
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #557 on: November 19, 2012, 05:20:47 PM »
I'm not a pervert, except on days beginning with T.
Tuesday, Thursday, Today, Tomorrow.

Offline Nicklance

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 286
  • Strongest!
    • View Profile
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #558 on: November 20, 2012, 05:47:37 AM »
Loli fanservice is borderline child pornography. Even the Japanese government is being forcefully made aware of that. Now, the only way to get loli hentai is if the author calls it something like a 900 year old vampire who got turned at the age of 9, or some girl who has a sickness so that she doesn't age physically. But everyone knows, that's semantics. There are manga authors on Japan that really do go out of their ways to introduce child-like but sexy characters to appeal to the loli public, and the simple fact that something like loli fanservice has to be included in any type of media *at all* for it's increased success, is in and of itself, an indication that something has gone horribly wrong.

Me? I'm a regular guy. I like Jailbait, i really do. For me, personally, a well developed girl is very attractive. But that's ONLY BECAUSE THE GODDAMN GIRL LOOKS LIKE A GROWN UP ADULT WOMAN! I'm not attracted to her age, i'm attracted to her tits, her butt, and her curves. Anyone who says they're not attracted to some of the 15 or the 16 year olds you see walking out there on the street every day is lying their teeth off, especially because those very girls are going out of their way to dress like sluts and give men aneurysms. They're growing up faster, and it shows. They want to be noticed, so you notice them, and that's biology 101.

And that's the case with regular fanservice... Like every other ecchi manga, like Highschool of the Dead, for example, just to shine a very well known example. But manga and anime have been getting more and more of loli fanservice... And *why* that is, and the answer to that question, is the key of the matter.

I'll give you one example of a very well executed anime who would have gone well with a slightly older female lead: Shakugan no Shana. The whole story is brilliant. The characters are good, and the story itself is good as well. But she LOOKS like a 10 year old. Granted, there's little to no fanservice on Shakugan no Shana, but there's the romance between her and Yuji, and it could've been much more fleshed out if they were a little bit older, at least. The on-off playground-like romance between them is SO out of sync with the entire PLOT of the series it's not even funny. I mean, they're just little kids, but they're fighting a frikken war, people dying left and right, they even kill a bunch... But they STILL can switch off from war-mode to 10-year-old-doesn't-know-anything-better mode?

It's bull. And it's even more bull that she's what? 500 years old?

Screw that. If you put a child in a situation like that, you'd have them growing up FAST. Maybe not physically, but psychologically? Fuck yeah. Just look at the child soldiers in war-ridden Africa and Asia. They shoot to kill, they rape, they steal, they smoke and they drink, and when you look deep in their eyes, there's no child there anymore. Of course, that's too bleak to go mainstream... But the opposite is just as bad. A child that can just switch from blast-this-guys-head-off-with-shotgun to i-don't-know-how-to-talk-to-girls in 10 seconds flat is just silly.

I like fanservice in moderate amounts, and i've defended that much already. I think sexuality is a part of human nature, and any fiction that aspires to be truly great has to explore that facet of humankind. But loli... That ain't normal. It's not a part of human sexuality. It's part of a sick twisted fetish.

So i refuse to watch loli hentai... But then what? There's awesome anime out there that have loli fanservice in them. It's not explicit enough to get them labeled as hentai, but it's out there. It should end. Fuck that.

While i'm on a roll here, i should also add why that shit should end once and for all: It gives sick people a way to fantasize even more about their sick twisted fetishes. If they don't get excited enough from it already, they watch more stuff, and then they do get excited enough, and they go look for it on the real world. Labelling it a normal behavior let's them abstract it and justify child porn, and child rape, and whatnot. Sure 99% of the people who watch it don't go and act on their wishes, but what about those who do?

And what about the effect it has on courtrooms? People actually *do* argue in court that shit like that influenced them... That they shouldn't be held accountable because it's so mainstream on their society, etc. etc... And in some cases, they let some shit pass.

Like the overwhelming hornyness japan has on schoolgirls. How many teachers act on their desires on their students because there's over 9000 mangas out there that encourage just that? That actually defend it as true love and shit?

I grew out of being an otaku a long, long time ago. I do enjoy anime like i always did, but i'm no longer into the culture, because that culture is a tad fucked up for me.

Jormungand has that child soldier Jonah.
Will add later

Offline SorO_Lost

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7197
  • Banned
    • View Profile
Re: Anime & Manga 4: Brotherhood
« Reply #559 on: November 20, 2012, 10:57:11 AM »
What are we talking about again? >.>

I mean, I thought it was pick the one of two and I took it as annoying fanservice is annoying. Now it's everyone is a pedophile and historically Japan are repressed people that deserve loli porn? wtf.